The end of the birther movement: the release of Obama's long-form certificate

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Birthers still dispute he is a natural-born citizen because
1) they don't believe in the 14th Amendment and Mrs. Dunham wasn't old enough to confer citizenship to Obama
2) that since his father held citizenship in Kenya, thus making Obama also a British subject during his childhood and "the framers of the Constitution excluded dual citizens from qualifying as natural born citizens"

#2 is really BS since the founding fathers were dual citizens when America declared its independence

What do you think of this birther hoopla?

[musica.cards]

#2 is really BS since the founding fathers were dual citizens when America declared its independence

Do you really need to review the constitutional requirements for being the president of the United States?

Also, didn't the founding fathers renounce their British citizenship when they founded the country and signed the Declaration of Independence (and won the Revolutionary War)?

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Do you really need to review the constitutional requirements for being the president of the United States?

I'm merely quoting WND verbatim.

Also, didn't the founding fathers renounce their British citizenship [blah blah blah]?

No. Renunciation was a concept originated in the 1870 British nationality law. Though, citizens of the US at the time of the adoption of the Constitution were also classified as natural born citizens, the so-called "grandfather provision".

[musica.cards]

I'm merely quoting WND verbatim.

wat

Also, what part of that came from WND verbatim?

No. Renunciation was a concept originated in the 1870 British nationality law.

And somehow Americans are subject to British law?

If we say we're no longer British citizens, and we have the power to kick their asses (again and again, at that point), then who are they to claim that we are British citizens?

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wat

Also, what part of that came from WND verbatim?

learn to read quotation marks

And somehow Americans are subject to British law?

No. The point is the founding fathers were dual citizens since they were born during British jurisdiction and British nationality at the time could not be renounced. That's why the founding fathers included the grandfather provision.

If we say we're no longer British citizens, and we have the power to kick their asses (again and again, at that point), then who are they to claim that we are British citizens?

I hereby renounce my obligations to the United States of America as an American citizen.

[musica.cards]

learn to read quotation marks

No. The point is the founding fathers were dual citizens since they were born during British jurisdiction and British nationality at the time could not be renounced.

Says who, our guns or their words? If the colonies could (and have) ganged up on the British Empire, win, and form a new country, why couldn't they renounce their British citizenship?

That's why the founding fathers included the grandfather provision.

I hereby renounce my obligations to the United States of America as an American citizen.

Why should I care? Go talk to the American government. And bring guns

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If the colonies could (and have) ganged up on the British Empire, win, and form a new country, why couldn't they renounce their British citizenship?

Entirely irrelevant. British nationality is under the jurisdiction of Britain and the laws codifing renounciation weren't in the nationality law used at that time.

Why should I care? Go talk to the American government. And bring guns

However, my invalid renunciation of my citizenship is relevant. You can't renounce your citizenship while you are still residing in the country in question. And America officially seceded from Britain after the 1783 Treaty of Paris.

[musica.cards]

Entirely irrelevant. British nationality is under the jurisdiction of Britain and the laws codifing renounciation weren't in the nationality law used at that time.

Say that to my face Q('_' Q)

Seriously though, if the founding fathers considered themselves Americans, and renounced their British citizenship, who's to stop them? Some piece of parchment in Britain that American forces could rip up, should they decide to invade Britain one day?

However, my invalid renunciation of my citizenship is relevant. You can't renounce your citizenship while you are still residing in the country in question.

What if you were in the process of packing up when you renounce your citizenship? Doesn't it take some time for the American government to process your renunciation?

And America officially seceded from Britain after the 1783 Treaty of Paris.

But even behind the realities of war (who's idea was it to generate a treaty?), the American forces were able to secure their freedom; and at that point, they were not only able to call themselves Americans, but also able to renounce their British citizenship (again, who's gonna stop them?).

[burzumfan420]

i9 was reading this newspaper and it was about if obama has renounced his citizenship or something. i dunno.

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Say that to my face Q('_' Q)

Seriously though, if the founding fathers considered themselves Americans, and renounced their British citizenship, who's to stop them? Some piece of parchment in Britain that American forces could rip up, should they decide to invade Britain one day?

I don't think some of the founding fathers (e.g. Alexander Hamilton) would be so quick to renounce their citizenship since they had trade interests in Britain

What if you were in the process of packing up when you renounce your citizenship? Doesn't it take some time for the American government to process your renunciation?

Say that to the US Consulate in whatever country you resettled in's face Q('_' Q)

But even behind the realities of war (who's idea was it to generate a treaty?), the American forces were able to secure their freedom; and at that point, they were not only able to call themselves Americans

very loosely

i9 was reading this newspaper and it was about if obama has renounced his citizenship or something. i dunno.

lol what newspaper is this

[burzumfan420]

it is local newspaper but this guy had been to tea party press thigns and followed the whole thing and he is basically saying that they are going to say stupid shit on it forever

[musica.cards]

I don't think some of the founding fathers (e.g. Alexander Hamilton) would be so quick to renounce their citizenship since they had trade interests in Britain

Unless the British placed a trade embargo, how would their renunciation ruin their trade interests?

Say that to the US Consolate in whatever country you resettled in's face Q('_' Q)

So is that a yes or a no? I'd hate to insult a US Consulate, but what if he or she really is slow?

very loosely

Elaborate.

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Elaborate.

notice in the declaration of independence, the deemphasis on united:

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America...

states wanted to be sovereign entities after the war
and you can see under the articles of confederation government formed after the war, the federal government was very weak

So is that a yes or a no? I'd hate to insult a US Consulate, but what if he or she really is slow?

I'm so flattered by the name-calling.

[musica.cards]

notice in the declaration of independence, the deemphasis on united:states wanted to be sovereign entities after the war

That's entirely argument. How did you reach that conclusion from only the words "We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America..."? It'd be more useful if you quoted the whole thing.

Or do you not consider citizenship to be a political tie?

and you can see under the articles of confederation government formed after the war, the federal government was very weak

And how are the Articles of Confederation relevant?

I'm so flattered by the name-calling.

Excuse me?

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And how are the Articles of Confederation relevant?

Because they were the articles under the government at the time of the official secession from Britain and formed the first notion of an United States of America?
And doesn't the term for our major subdivision, "state", have a connotation to you?