Force Awakens - THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS

[TooB]

uh luke is also a mary sue if we're going to use that argument lmao

im more getting at the that fact that 'mary sue' is a fucking retarded nonsensical trope to begin with so yes explain to me how luke is any different

agreed

[Samus Aran]

"mary sue" is only nonsensical in that it's kinda devolved from its original meaning and now people just apply it to any young character who saves the day with unrealistic latent ability beyond the adults around them. it's lost its other original criteria: self-insert and/or wish fulfillment on the part of the author/director/screenwriter

regardless, i feel like it's not very applicable to star wars in general, because star wars has always been about young people with powers. but if we're gonna talk about tiers of mary sue-ness, anakin in phantom menace is of course the worst, as he destroys the blockade thingy out of sheer dumb luck and holy shit this whole movie is stupid so i'm not gonna get into it. but then luke is actually the second worst in a new hope, destroying the death star with only an inkling of what the force even is.

rey is nowhere near as bad as these. she actually slowly realizes her powers through the film, and still only manages to clumsily get by with them. it is a bit odd that she manages to overpower someone who's had legit jedi training, but i guess for all we know, ben was never that talented to begin with, or something else idk. still, she doesn't save the day at all, she just fights the dude while a normal resistance pilot saves the day in the background by destroying star killer base. it's quite different from luke's scenario. and more "realistic."

i wouldn't call her a mary sue at all, especially not compared to luke

[snoorkel]

"mary sue" is only nonsensical in that it's kinda devolved from its original meaning and now people just apply it to any young character who saves the day with unrealistic latent ability beyond the adults around them. it's lost its other original criteria: self-insert and/or wish fulfillment on the part of the author/director/screenwriter

regardless, i feel like it's not very applicable to star wars in general, because star wars has always been about young people with powers. but if we're gonna talk about tiers of mary sue-ness, anakin in phantom menace is of course the worst, as he destroys the blockade thingy out of sheer dumb luck and holy shit this whole movie is stupid so i'm not gonna get into it. but then luke is actually the second worst in a new hope, destroying the death star with only an inkling of what the force even is.

rey is nowhere near as bad as these. she actually slowly realizes her powers through the film, and still only manages to clumsily get by with them. it is a bit odd that she manages to overpower someone who's had legit jedi training, but i guess for all we know, ben was never that talented to begin with, or something else idk. still, she doesn't save the day at all, she just fights the dude while a normal resistance pilot saves the day in the background by destroying star killer base. it's quite different from luke's scenario. and more "realistic."

i wouldn't call her a mary sue at all, especially not compared to luke

true

[C.Mongler]

"mary sue" is only nonsensical in that it's kinda devolved from its original meaning and now people just apply it to any young character who saves the day with unrealistic latent ability beyond the adults around them. it's lost its other original criteria: self-insert and/or wish fulfillment on the part of the author/director/screenwriter

regardless, i feel like it's not very applicable to star wars in general, because star wars has always been about young people with powers. but if we're gonna talk about tiers of mary sue-ness, anakin in phantom menace is of course the worst, as he destroys the blockade thingy out of sheer dumb luck and holy shit this whole movie is stupid so i'm not gonna get into it. but then luke is actually the second worst in a new hope, destroying the death star with only an inkling of what the force even is.

rey is nowhere near as bad as these. she actually slowly realizes her powers through the film, and still only manages to clumsily get by with them. it is a bit odd that she manages to overpower someone who's had legit jedi training, but i guess for all we know, ben was never that talented to begin with, or something else idk. still, she doesn't save the day at all, she just fights the dude while a normal resistance pilot saves the day in the background by destroying star killer base. it's quite different from luke's scenario. and more "realistic."

i wouldn't call her a mary sue at all, especially not compared to luke

my man 

[TooB]

I've heard some people complain that rey was too perfect in that she knew things right away about Hans ship, and some other part on Starkiller. To me, it makes sense from when we are introduced to her, she's scavenging parts to sell, so it would make sense that she know SOMETHING about them.

The fact that it's played off as, "oh what's this? Oh that's the right thing" didn't bother me at all. To me, it was just an inherent knowledge or something like that.

[ME##]

I've heard some people complain that rey was too perfect in that she knew things right away about Hans ship, and some other part on Starkiller. To me, it makes sense from when we are introduced to her, she's scavenging parts to sell, so it would make sense that she know SOMETHING about them.

The fact that it's played off as, "oh what's this? Oh that's the right thing" didn't bother me at all. To me, it was just an inherent knowledge or something like that.

knowing parts and knowing how to fly ships are two very different things

[TooB]

I've heard some people complain that rey was too perfect in that she knew things right away about Hans ship, and some other part on Starkiller. To me, it makes sense from when we are introduced to her, she's scavenging parts to sell, so it would make sense that she know SOMETHING about them.

The fact that it's played off as, "oh what's this? Oh that's the right thing" didn't bother me at all. To me, it was just an inherent knowledge or something like that.

knowing parts and knowing how to fly ships are two very different things

that too though.
When did Luke learn how to pilot an X-Wing? Unless there's a piece of dialogue I missed in A New Hope

[C.Mongler]

awwwwwwwwww shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

[Samus Aran]

I've heard some people complain that rey was too perfect in that she knew things right away about Hans ship, and some other part on Starkiller. To me, it makes sense from when we are introduced to her, she's scavenging parts to sell, so it would make sense that she know SOMETHING about them.

The fact that it's played off as, "oh what's this? Oh that's the right thing" didn't bother me at all. To me, it was just an inherent knowledge or something like that.

knowing parts and knowing how to fly ships are two very different things

that too though.
When did Luke learn how to pilot an X-Wing? Unless there's a piece of dialogue I missed in A New Hope

He mentions a couple times in A New Hope that he pilots a T-16 Skyhopper for fun on Tatooine, particularly through the narrow and twisty Beggar's Canyon (in reference to the trench run) and that he "bulls-eyes womprats" with said ship (in reference to the size of the exhaust port they have to shoot proton torpedoes into)

He also mentions at one point that he's "not such a bad pilot himself." He's also got Force intuition, and of course, his father was mentioned to be an excellent pilot.

Granted, none of that is specific to piloting an X-Wing in particular, but if we're to assume it's not that different than piloting his usual Skyhopper, then there you go

[TooB]

Well... rey pilots that weird machine on jakku when scavenging.
Who's to say she didn't pilots other vehicles as well, just speculating

[ME##]

Well... rey pilots that weird machine on jakku when scavenging.
Who's to say she didn't pilots other vehicles as well, just speculating

But you also have to acknowledge that piloting an X-Wing is much different as it's a basically their equivalent of a fighter jet where as the MF is akin to a fucking garbage barge on the Hudson

[YPrrrr]

Honestly the thing I bought the least was her getting the stormtrooper to leave and drop his weapon.

I mean at least when she realized Kylo Ren's own fears she was imitating his own methods. But how could she possibly know how to manipulate the weak minded without some sort of training or example. I mean maybe she hears about it in the stories of the jedi sure, but that doesn't explain its execution. Same with force pulling the lightsaber but at least that seems more intuitive that controlling someone else's brain

[TooB]

[C.Mongler]

Honestly the thing I bought the least was her getting the stormtrooper to leave and drop his weapon.

I mean at least when she realized Kylo Ren's own fears she was imitating his own methods. But how could she possibly know how to manipulate the weak minded without some sort of training or example. I mean maybe she hears about it in the stories of the jedi sure, but that doesn't explain its execution. Same with force pulling the lightsaber but at least that seems more intuitive that controlling someone else's brain

i totes agree but i think ill try to reason with the movie anyway

jedi tales of their amazing feats and the power of the force have spread across the galaxy at this point. rey, whom just moments earlier had a mental fencing match with Kylo Ren and somehow wasn't instantly quashed by his awesome force power, begins to realize there's something weird going on. it is at this point that THE FORCE AWAKENS within rey, so she decides to focus and try using a 'jedi mind trick' that some fat slug thing on jakku told her a story about when she was a wee lass. and to her amazement for some fuckin reason it works.

but yeah that part was silly but i kind of suspend all disbelief when i walk into these things so fuck it


EDIT did some googlin and according to the [glow=red,2,300]CANON[/glow] novelization apparently when rylo ken tried to break into her mind it broke some mental barrier that unlocked her force powers or some bullshit i dunno lmao

[Samus Aran]

that canon reasoning is really dumb, i'd prefer to just imagine that rey has heard of jedi mind tricks before and manages to do it through intuition, with a little help from kylo having given her a taste of how the force works