us amerilkans staet wrasslin champsopsinp

[Travis]

Kid has Heart

[Hiro]

i can't get behind stuff like this. i mean, depending on the individual with cp's mental state, he could have been really fucking stoked about winning, but i've worked with some people with cp and a lot of the time they are pretty mentally coherent about what is going on. this comes off as overly sympathetic for me. if i was the kid and i knew that i won because i didn't do anything because people felt sorry for my condition, it would make me feel worse.
but then again it probably did help his self esteem a lot knowing that so many people were happy for him

idk it just makes me a little uneasy

i was going to agree with this, but then again what would the kid expect if he's joining the wrestling team?

[Boogus Epirus Aurelius]

i can't get behind stuff like this. i mean, depending on the individual with cp's mental state, he could have been really fucking stoked about winning, but i've worked with some people with cp and a lot of the time they are pretty mentally coherent about what is going on. this comes off as overly sympathetic for me. if i was the kid and i knew that i won because i didn't do anything because people felt sorry for my condition, it would make me feel worse.
but then again it probably did help his self esteem a lot knowing that so many people were happy for him

idk it just makes me a little uneasy

i was going to agree with this, but then again what would the kid expect if he's joining the wrestling team?

I'd imagine the parents play a big part in that.

[strongbad]

Perhaps its not our place to put a moral value on this event.

you can state your feelings regarding an event without placing moral value on it

[Hippopo]

Perhaps its not our place to put a moral value on this event.

you can state your feelings regarding an event without placing moral value on it

Good point. Here are a few questions for you though:

Can't you also just as easily imply some sort of "right or wrong" by going beyond your feelings, and doesn't your last post do this when you project how you would have felt in the boy's position?  Does this not say more than your initial reaction as a spectator?  More importantly, do you think your projected feelings as the boy are grounded considering you don't have many (if any) of the facts pertaining to this situation?

But yes, you are right.  You can give your feelings without placing any sort of value judgment on a situation.

[Boogus Epirus Aurelius]

Perhaps its not our place to put a moral value on this event.

you can state your feelings regarding an event without placing moral value on it

Good point. Here are a few questions for you though:

Can't you also just as easily imply some sort of "right or wrong" by going beyond your feelings, and doesn't your last post do this when you project how you would have felt in the boy's position?  Does this not say more than your initial reaction as a spectator?  More importantly, do you think your projected feelings as the boy are grounded considering you don't have many (if any) of the facts pertaining to this situation?

But yes, you are right.  You can give your feelings without placing any sort of value judgment on a situation.

I don't think any or most of that really applies here though.
And Strongbad's opinion on the matter is grounded in the fact that he's had experience working directly with individuals who suffer from that condition.

Regardless, I think most people after seeing that would agree it's a doofus judgement call from the parents, the team and the school. Feel-goodery with a shitty aftertaste.

[Hippopo]

Perhaps its not our place to put a moral value on this event.

you can state your feelings regarding an event without placing moral value on it

Good point. Here are a few questions for you though:

Can't you also just as easily imply some sort of "right or wrong" by going beyond your feelings, and doesn't your last post do this when you project how you would have felt in the boy's position?  Does this not say more than your initial reaction as a spectator?  More importantly, do you think your projected feelings as the boy are grounded considering you don't have many (if any) of the facts pertaining to this situation?

But yes, you are right.  You can give your feelings without placing any sort of value judgment on a situation.

I don't think any or most of that really applies here though.
And Strongbad's opinion on the matter is grounded in the fact that he's had experience working directly with individuals who suffer from that condition.

Regardless, I think most people after seeing that would agree it's a doofus judgement call from the parents, the team and the school. Feel-goodery with a shitty aftertaste.

My point is that for this situation, all of our opinions are groundless.  The video is a minute long.  We have no idea who the kid is, who his parents are, or why this event took place.  All we know is that he is disabled, he competed in a wrestling match, and he won because the opponent let him.

So you have a "shitty aftertaste."  From my understanding, you feel this way because this event didn't accomplish anything.  He didn't conquer his disease.  But who are you to say that?  You have no idea who he is, what's he's accomplished already, or what his ambitions are.  Maybe it has always been his dream to wrestle - just to feel what its like to be in the ring and to have a crowd cheer for him.  Maybe he wanted to simply experience a little of this sport, even if he knew he wouldn't be able to experience it in full.

And as a parent, what do you tell your son with CP who wants to wrestle?

"Sorry, but you can't unless you have a chance at winning.  Try something else that you'll actually be good at."

Maybe you would say this.  But I don't think its unacceptable or in bad taste to be a parent who says, "Let's try."  Or to be a school who accommodates it.

All I'm saying is that we have no right to say whether this was tasteless or not.  We simply don't know the facts behind it. And it doesn't matter whether we've worked with people with a similar condition or not.  That just doesn't matter.

[YPrrrr]

I wish I could conquer my disease by laying there motionless and letting someone else do all the work for me

[ncba93ivyase]

Maybe you would say this.  But I don't think its unacceptable or in bad taste to be a parent who says, "Let's try."  Or to be a school who accommodates it.

I think there's a limit to how far we should go to accomodate someone.

Someone wants to go to a restaurant with their friends but can't get up the stairs? Build a ramp. Someone wants to write books but they're blind? They can dictate their stories to someone else, and if they're interesting, people will read them. Someone wants to be involved in a physically intense sport and they literally can't move? Having someone pretend to lose just so we can call him a winner without completely lying is a little too much.

We can accomodate people while sacrificing nothing, but saying everybody has a right to participate in something just because they're completely incapable is a bit ridiculous. How many fat and weak kids were rejected from the wrestling team because they just weren't fit for it? If we're going to let quadriplegics wrestle, why is it still okay to reject those who just aren't very good? There are countless kids being mocked everyday for being "losers" and they'd love to have a crowd cheer for them, but we don't give them a chance because they're not 100% disabled.

[Hippopo]

I'll try to restate my point:  We can't have a grounded opinion one way or the other.

Having someone pretend to lose just so we can call him a winner without completely lying is a little too much.

We don't know the facts.  I've mentioned this many times.  But letting someone win is not asking for too much when everyone involved is okay with it.  Maybe it's too much for you, but if someone is willing to do it, should we automatically spit on them and call them tasteless?  You're making this out to be way more than it actually is.

We can accomodate people while sacrificing nothing, but saying everybody has a right to participate in something just because they're completely incapable is a bit ridiculous. How many fat and weak kids were rejected from the wrestling team because they just weren't fit for it? If we're going to let quadriplegics wrestle, why is it still okay to reject those who just aren't very good? There are countless kids being mocked everyday for being "losers" and they'd love to have a crowd cheer for them, but we don't give them a chance because they're not 100% disabled.

Do you think that's a fair analogy?  Do you honestly believe we don't give "weak kids" "a chance" if they want to do a sport?  Do you not realize there are a plethora of avenues for an able-bodied person who wants to do sports (even a particular sport), but isn't good enough to get onto a varsity team?  You're not banned form a sport all of your life if you can't make the cut for one team.

Look, I'm not looking from an apology or a change of heart from any of you.  I know that once you say your opinion, it's hard to change it, especially on the internet.  I just seriously think you should examine your opinions on this and see if they're grounded and fair to the family, the school, and to this kid.

[strongbad]

i'm kind of ignoring all of the text here with this point but my problem with this is the same problem that i have with someone finishing dead last getting a ridiculous amount of cheering

maybe you guys aren't familiar with this, and maybe it isn't a normal thing, but i saw this a lot in my 8 or so years of swimming. whenever somebody is behind by a large amount, people seem to get really into sympathy cheering. i feel like it just draws attention to the person who is in the losing position and makes them feel worse about themselves

i have nothing against people who are worse off physically competing in things, but i think that the extra attention that they get when they are worse off isn't a good reinforcer for them.