fuck college.

[?????]

so when are we going to get 'open source' colleges where you can pay for specific classes and the credits are good for some sort of general accreditation regardless of where you get them, as long as the instructors are accredited 

the completely opposite side of LA

That's not that far is it? Under an hour drive?

[snoorkel]

That's not that far is it? Under an hour drive?

yeah about 8 minutes but I like taking my surfboard places

[applesauce]

so when are we going to get 'open source' colleges where you can pay for specific classes and the credits are good for some sort of general accreditation regardless of where you get them, as long as the instructors are accredited  

uh lol what that's stupid

[snoorkel]

uh lol what that's stupid

y

[applesauce]

y

...because some schools are always going to be harder/better than others and will have different biases in their material and focus. why would you want to regulate even more things than are already regulated? this is like deciding that every person needs to be the same and standardized and interchangeable. every institution is different and they work for different people. why fuck with what people are doing? whose business is that? pardoning the negatives, what are the positives, even, of standardizing education? not even france standardizes a lot of college education, and they are the biggest believers of standardized education there is.

[snoorkel]

...because some schools are always going to be harder/better than others and will have different biases in their material and focus. why would you want to regulate even more things than are already regulated? this is like deciding that every person needs to be the same and standardized and interchangeable. every institution is different and they work for different people. why fuck with what people are doing? whose business is that? pardoning the negatives, what are the positives, even, of standardizing education? not even france standardizes a lot of college education, and they are the biggest believers of standardized education there is.

you're essentially right, why should anyone want to change something from the way it is?  

The 'regulation' and 'standardization' you're talking about are what we have now. I don't think I'm talking about 'standardizing' education at all, I'm advocating a system that would let the government decide each child's occupation at birth, and you'd have no choice but to go to a strictly government regulated occupational college. also all computers should record everything we do so that google ads can be more accurate, because then advertisers would have to spend less and the products would be cheaper for us. like education in a free market system.

[applesauce]

The 'regulation' and 'standardization' you're talking about are what we have now. I don't think I'm talking about 'standardizing' education at all, I'm advocating a system that would let the government decide each child's occupation at birth, and you'd have no choice but to go to a strictly government regulated occupational college. also all computers should record everything we do so that google ads can be more accurate, because then advertisers would have to spend less and the products would be cheaper for us. like education in a free market system.

I support this.


[spoiler]

you're essentially right, why should anyone want to change something from the way it is? 

In all seriousness, I really don't get why you would even want to go someplace where the school is just teaching something to a standardized system. Higher education should be, at least in my mind, about theory and thought and experienced people imparting their knowledge on a topic that they are experts on onto the less experienced. It should be about discussion and discovery and research. If it's just about learning things that are already known in a quantified way to people, there are books and online courses and such for that. Why pay tens of thousands to hear some old guys tell you about it?[/spoiler]

[snoorkel]

In all seriousness, I really don't get why you would even want to go someplace where the school is just teaching something to a standardized system. Higher education should be, at least in my mind, about theory and thought and experienced people imparting their knowledge on a topic that they are experts on onto the less experienced. It should be about discussion and discovery and research. If it's just about learning things that are already known in a quantified way to people, there are books and online courses and such for that. Why pay tens of thousands to hear some old guys tell you about it?

When did I mention a standardized system? I'm imagining a fantasy world where students could pick classes from multiple educational institutions, or just one, doesn't matter. There would still be places offering STANDARD 4-year degree programs and STANDARD course levels and STANDARD prerequisites, as now. Still want to go to a contained 4-year program? Sure, do it and pay 30 grand for the 'experience'. Want to craft your own unique higher education experience, for a less valuable or more valuable degree according to the intensity and diversity of your class choices? More power to you. The purpose of an educational institution would be to hire the most able professors for the educational market they are in (arts, technology, business, etc). The purpose of a professor would be to have a uniquely intellectual course desirable to students, which would become a commodity.

This is sort of how it works now, except the appeal and price of different colleges is based on the identity of the college and its overall 'program', not the actual value of the individual classes and professors the programs contain (there basically is no 'college market' now, it's highly standardized and subsidized to put each college's crop of professors on the same level). Instead of x number of available degrees throughout the country churning out graduates whose credentials fall generally into a set amount of broad categories (their major), students would have unlimited options available. This would ideally allow every well-endowed university to produce extremely potent graduates, because they would all vie for the premium professors (which there would be more of because it wouldn't be such a narrow occupational path). It would lower the cost of higher education, and make the job market for an average graduate more dynamic by way of introducing many more possible 'degrees' that employers (who, unlike colleges, are evolving dynamically with time) might be interested in, so that most college graduates didn't have to start their careers in a restaurant. Leave that for teenagers and immigrants

You will probably object that 'education shouldn't be a market', I'm not saying it should be. It should be as regulated as it is now. I'm also not trying to say that education as it exists is any great injustice or criminal disservice to students (although it almost is), just pointing out the broad scheme of a system that might work better and let people become useful to society faster. There's a long way to go.

Of course, this would mean that kids would have to start thinking for themselves earlier, colleges would have to be redesigned to be less like expensive high schools and more like 'universities' in the old sense of the word, and everybody (educators and students) would have to be constantly re-evaluating what is valuable and what knowledge is worthwhile, instead of adhering to an ages-old standard of what academia should be. These are all VERY BAD THINGS. So I see why it isn't done.

[applesauce]

I have no problem with what you are wanting, I just don't see how it can come about without a large regulatory body being instated. I just can't see credits being fully gauranteed transferable unless this change were driven by students. It's not in the best interest of any established university, so it couldn't ever get done. All them life-long academics have crazy ideas that clash completely with the business world. They like to play social engineers.

[snoorkel]

I have no problem with what you are wanting, I just don't see how it can come about without a large regulatory body being instated. I just can't see credits being fully gauranteed transferable unless this change were driven by students. It's not in the best interest of any established university, so it couldn't ever get done. All them life-long academics have crazy ideas that clash completely with the business world. They like to play social engineers.

Yeah, ideally education and business and social change would all be the same thing, that's what I'm suggesting. It's only against the best interest of established universities until they all decide to do it together -- friendly competition, instead of long-standing monopolies. 

[Socks]

Don't be deterred, it was more painful for me, yet here it is though. Mostly for your audience, only a little for my character.

I believe that theory gives rise to practice, practice grows into function and from function unfolds form. If a system is conceived with the wrong interpretation of the fundamental philosophical principles that govern its existence--the right understanding of which being absolutely crucial in achieving the desired effect said system is intended to generate--then the processes which constitute the workings are performing properly and according to the design, but will always fail to produce the intend outcome. Because the concept of how to realize what is desired is flawed, so too the actual design suffers from the same inherent fault. The result  is a dysfunctional system, since the premise is wrong, not from technical errors in construction or implementation. To correct the issue one must therefore address the idea, not simply adjust the mechanics. The latter is what we call a band-aid fix, temporary solution for dummies, or tummy tuck, for the massively obese.

I am the only person in my family and I was the first among my relatives to attend college in the United States. Naturally the concept seemed strange and was foreign to me. I was completely unfamiliar with the process. I had very little appreciation for degrees. Such things had never mattered previously in my life; they had never influenced the lives of those that were close to me, and it also was not a factor in the life of my parents. Thus for me college did not matter. This is the environment in which I grew. Those were the people that raised me. I learned from their experience. What I saw as meaningful reflected that which I viewed as significant. The columns and beams, that constitute my worldly construct, were created with their support. Their life taught me lessons.

How was I supposed to understand that attending a University was the necessary and vital course of action? Apparently. Why would I assume that my life eventually had to and somehow must progress through the prism of undergraduate education? Why should I dedicate myself to the study of some profession? Why are all encouraged pursuits of passion endeavors of talent so intimately tied with trade and business? I am not a whore and will never enter prostitution. How is the specialization of an unbound soul--something wholly mine--by embodying a given field of expertise--an entity not entirely my own--an enhancement of my perception, and an improvement in my experience, of this phenomenon I call reality? Why should I enter into a career? What is the rush and the fuss to decide immediately and do so permanently, in this manner and within third party courts of arbitration, and abide to their terms and conditions of policy, under their spell of ideology, having to follow their rule and regulations? No promise given or pledge avowed, not even a warranty for the consequences of their advice and the repercussions of their action.

My passion loves all desires mutually and tenderly; I must be faithful to all equally and love each uniquely, through many different mediums of means and ways. What significance does the choice of major hold, then? It was only but formality. It had no real power over me. The detached and abstract method, could never really seed roots and grow within. I have faith and I have belief, but I cannot worship an arbitrary deity, and I will I won't follow a false philosophy, to spread and preach lies and deceive humanity. If I say something out loud, does this make it true? If I wish something secretly, will it still become real?

Does this process possess a power, to create destiny on demand, and then definitely fulfill it? Is chance and fate or uncertainty so weak, is it so irrelevant, so menacing when it roams free and arrive incidentally. Why must a future unforeseen be considered unfortunate, and why are circumstances divided within two categories, one planned the other developing, when there is only one source from which they stem, and are both formed of the same ultimate forces, and manifest in an identically inescapable way? What does this all mean? I wish you could tell me. It always seems like I am doing most of the talking, and you cannot see where the thinking is created, in the infinite dimension which lies beneath the surface, chaotic and constant, almost overwhelming, because I want to express it all. I know it, of course. But what good is that only if I do?

In a way that cannot be explained to another, I am very sure of who I am, as I grow and progress with time. I reside on the physical and dwell in the undefined, multidimensional realm and whatever else, be it objective or imaginary. A canary in the bird cage, with the miners deep in the underground, to see where edges begin and the dangers start--as a cosmonaut of thought. I know precisely each and every innumerable feature, and the entirety of  immeasurable attributes, inherently indescribable in the way that you perceive and communicate. I am always becoming.  I am confident in the things I know. I am comfortable with how I approach the constant flow of existence, and I am awestruck that I remain in the present, and shocked when I observed that which I encounter become the past, and move on into history and lived through memory.

This was a revelation. I had found the secret to being. I realized that if explored reality, I had no need for change, because I had nothing planned. Each moment is a mystery. I am the investigator, you see, here to note and solve, the puzzle that your trouble over, unaware, of how much fun one can have, poking and teasing this half force two thirds entity. In this quest I am not alone. I have the greatest company. Intuition is my guide. My instructor is experience. I am on a tour of conscience. Grand and behind the scenes, the paranormal connoisseur, supernatural VIP. Thus I am always presented something unexpected, something to look forward to; I never know precisely what exactly the next moment will bring and holds--the source where my excitement flows from, and the reason why it always wells up without pause, similar to shooting springs or really high waterfall, perhaps a geyser or hot lava flow.

Internally I am spiritually at rest, in perpetual motion. My soul is infinite and of shapeless form, it has no borders and contains no matter, composed of energy, generating force, welling from our collective cosmic reservoir. Deep, an abyss, and full of color, I have an insatiable appetite and capacity to devour and absorb, what crosses my path and then orbits my world. I am a universal man. I am curious, I am ambitious, I am clever, and I am relentless. That you cannot properly recognize and adequately appreciate this as the case, is not really an area that I can help you on, so long as you choose to value things indirectly, materially, and ultimately, unfortunately, in a fundamentally pointless and superficial approach. As I recall, and suppose correctly, the highest necessity for individual fulfillment is SELF actualization. Puzzling isn't it, that you
require others in order to achieve it. I do not have that need. I have greater standards, and with just truth as my friend and witness, I am never lonely, or devoid of context. So when you look at this and ask what the hell does he mean, I have proved my point. Trying to figure out my style and form and, and to find a overarching structure or some logical sense and lineal layout, but there is none, only the free flowing force of life, which dictates and leads me to where it goes.

You should take note, that this plain and stunning principle, is what allows me to overcome greater obstacles, as I traverse the distance, that appear insurmountable, and quite impossible to those who lack in self development, because they never valued it to the same degree as I, or recognized it as chief among all features, which influence and represent your character. There are not enough courses available or degrees to acquire, which will substitute that fact, when they only barely compensate for it. What shall I have to prove? Who must I convince? Why is this a competition, and not a collaborative effort? I only have to honor that ultimate element, the one that drowns you regardless of how long you may hold your breath, and the one that befuddles you, because your world seems flat, when you are unknowingly so very tiny, and your mind cannot escape the bounds of doubt, to see both heaven and all the earth, within an imaginative reality, open to all possibility, and yet drawn from a common hand, of the moat beautiful and inexplicable divinity. Which to casting eyes appears cloudy, or foggy, when it as homely as could be, and therefore the most profound.

The mother of the cause. What more is needed? But truth and live to feel happiness. If you do not confront the unknown,  and genuinely welcome it with respect, the spooky is unveiled as magic in disguise, and you never have to compromise in any circumstance, as there is nothing to worry about, and there is no reason left to fear. Everyone is friends here, and there is only living. If you can do this and go to sleep and wake up you are the envy of a crazy world. No single thing defines me, I am the one who define everything. My interests vary and I seek what pleases me, that is also positive and of course true, which secures me snugly  in the fabric, of that web which ties the separate pieces of reality, to compose a mosaic picture that I want to one day see. It is where the answers are, within unimaginable beauty.

You can peak at it within the blossom of a flower, talk to it while chirping with the crickets, or when enjoying the most intimate of summer showers. You will never find this in artificial creations, made to serve themselves in order to retroactively establish, and conjure the illusion of necessity. These are false notions, and not legitimate ideals, only hollow customs, and degenerate practices, which destroy what is good, and subvert the natural,  in preaching their absurd messages, among the masses and among the flocks, of those helpless and those unwitting believers of what really is obvious and nonsensical conjecture. With enough appraise the comes acceptance, and the motion of an objection, in a charge of it being ridiculous, exists no longer as a question, and lingers only in those uncommon minds, while henceforth deemed an obscure thought, of little relevance and dispensable importance, according to the prevailing opinion, of the present and presiding majority, and society, which is our own extension, and consists of a construct nature, incorporates this alteration, to reflecting the change within perception.

But no matter how much effort we invest, in distortion of reality, to accommodate a false notion or a wrong belief system, the truth will always remain the same from birth to grave, no matter the level of fervent and zealous personal insistence. It will be in vain and it will go to waste, washed away with hatred by posterity, which sees you for the fool you were, as all that you have accomplished is to make what is real seem a dream, and turn promising hope into a fancied wish, by twisting the landscape to adjust for ignorance, and the lenses of intolerance, leaving those in tune with the actual world, to suffer and navigate a surreal scene, following a straight line to truth, inside a tangled maze, stuck and knowing that they are stuck, because they are aware of the inescapable paradox, of collective wakening before individual sleep, which causes and ensures the manifestation and continuation as the terrible state of affairs and nightmarish circumstances, which bleed essence, and kill significance, that we feel and see in our shared existence, and the desperation which we are
all conscious of in varying degrees of despair, from severe for some to blissful for most.

You can tell them apart, who is who, who knows what and what they feel, by how much they travel in circles or how strongly they refuse to move, whether they speak in conditionals or talk in absolutes, if they resort to self evidence or reason with self evident truths. You can tell them apart by the story written on their face and embodied within their grace, held within a striking stare, or missing in the glossy gaze, you can spot them from ambiguity in their demeanor, or you can recognize them from the merchandise they wear and advertise. You will know them if they are like you, as you are the same, and there are more enemies then those who are friends.  And this is very sad to me. I cannot write no more. It is very tiring when every few care. Who really am I talking to, right?

[Travis]

you said it brother

[Socks]

you said it brother

and you said nothing at all. your cost for not reading. 

[?????]

and you said nothing at all. your cost for not reading. 

The way you write just seems really arrogant. There is something beautiful when people are straight-to-the-point and don't dance around with their silly riddles.

Also, you don't even say much. It's just a bunch of crap with beautiful words.

[Socks]

I was wired on amphetamines what the fuck do you expect? The other part I cannot understand.