The FDA, and natural cures

[musica.cards]

 Please excuse the bump, but after about a week, I now have access to the book I was talking about (the one that mentions hypnosis curing warts, but I'm only posting for proof of concept), the book is called "The Doctors Book of Home Remedies: Thousands of Tips and Techniques Anyone Can Use to Heal Everyday Health Problems", the ISBN is 0-553-29156-4, the page that mentions hypnosis to cure Warts is 694. Everything on that page is as follows:

       Mind Games: Who's in Control Here?

       Go into a trance. "You are getting very sleepy-soon you will be in a deep trance-soon your warts will disappear." Hogwash? No, hypnosis. And it may be a formidable weapon against warts.
       According to psychiatrist Owen Surman, M.D., of Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston. "Hypnosis does seem to be a scientifically validated tool for treating warts. Why it would be is a subject of guesswork. Currently, people are very interested in this area called psychoneuroimmunology. It's attractive to think that mental phenomena could affect immune function."
       In one study, Dr. Surman hypnotized 17 people who had warts on both sides of their bodies for a series of five sessions and told them that their warts would disappear from one side only. Another 7 people were not hypnotized and were instructed to abstrain from using any wart remedies on their own. Three months later, more than half of the hypnotized group had lost at least 75 percent of their warts. The people who hadn't been hypnotized still had their warts.
      And although the warts that did go away disappeared from both sides of the hypnosis group's bodies, "we felt that the experiment was a success," says Dr. Surman.

From what this tells us, this does a better job at (actually doing something) then the placebo effect does, but it won't work on people like Lawlz.

[guff]

boy that study doesn't seemed flawed

jk ^_^

17 people is an extremely small sample size.  And then the "control" group wasn't even half that. 
Even then, the control group consisted of no treatment whatsoever.  This is completely useless for comparison.
Also, the type of warts, severity, and how long they had been around for was not specified, which could have easily skewed the results.  Oh, and warts typically regress after a few months.  For no one in the control group to have lost their warts is quite strange.

From what this tells us, this does a better job at (actually doing something) then the placebo effect does...

The control group was not given a placebo.  They were told to abstain from treatment. 

[musica.cards]

boy that study doesn't seemed flawed

jk ^_^

17 people is an extremely small sample size.  And then the "control" group wasn't even half that.  psyduck
Even then, the control group consisted of no treatment whatsoever.  This is completely useless for comparison.
Also, the type of warts, severity, and how long they had been around for was not specified, which could have easily skewed the results.  Oh, and warts typically regress after a few months.  For no one in the control group to have lost their warts is quite strange.

From what this tells us, this does a better job at (actually doing something) then the placebo effect does, but it won't work on people like Lawlz.

The control group was not given a placebo.  They were told to abstain from treatment. 

That's what a control is supposed to do Anyways, the test length was 5 sessions, which is about 60 minutes at most, when the sessions took place, we don't know...

[guff]

That's what a control is supposed to do

Anyways, the test length was 5 sessions, which is about 60 minutes at most, when the sessions took place, we don't know...

The results need to be compared to another treatment (a placebo, at least), or they're completely useless.

cool i don't care

[musica.cards]

The results need to be compared to another treatment (a placebo, at least), or they're completely useless.

cool i don't care

Who's says the experiment was to compare treatments? From what I can tell, that was only a proof-of-concept experiment.

[guff]

Who's says the experiment was to compare treatments? From what I can tell, that was only a proof-of-concept experiment.

But that says absolutely nothing of its validity.  So it's useless.

[musica.cards]

But that says absolutely nothing of its validity.  So it's useless.

The test does show it works, however, we have no idea what times those sessions took place, but in the end, all you need to be able to do in an experiment is to be able to see a difference, right?

[musica.cards]

Well so much for that idea sweat; Well I'm out of ideas (the only thing I can say is that hypnosis can be used to stop feeling Arthritis pain (just watch this (hopefully I got the right video, it should talk about hypnosis, and it should have a part that has the subject not feel any pain from a bit of really hot water))). So unless I come up with another (reasonable) idea, I will leave this debate.

Oops! One quick thing about this post, do today's medicine cure Arthritis/for the time being, couldn't we just use pain relief as a temporary Arthritis pain "treatment"?

[guff]

The test does show it works...

Irrelevant, even if the results are valid.  To be an effective treatment, it has to be more potent than a placebo.
YOU ARE NOT GETTING THIS

...all you need to be able to do in an experiment is to be able to see a difference, right?

Uh, you need accurate results, too.  And again, there was no difference to be seen.  A placebo was not included in the "study."

...do today's medicine cure Arthritis...

god christing damn already answered this

[musica.cards]

 All long as we need it works, right? Sure, we still need to test if it's more effective than a placebo, but we know it does something, right? Anyways, this time around, just a simple "yes" or "no" would be fine (and if I remember correctly, we never really talked about pain relief being good enough until we find a real treatment for Arthritis).

[guff]

All long as we need it works, right?

what the christ are you trying to say

Sure, we still need to test if it's more effective than a placebo, but we know it does something, right?

No.  Not until it's tested against a placebo, and on a much larger scale will we know that it does anything at all.

Anyways, this time around, just a simple "yes" or "no" would be fine (and if I remember correctly, we never really talked about pain relief being good enough until we find a real treatment for Arthritis).

A yes or no would not be sufficient.  There are many different types.

[musica.cards]

 But don't all of the listed Arthritis types listed in this thread share one symptom? Anyways, you don't need a placebo to make the experiment a success (the validity of healing though hypnosis), we need a placebo to test against (to find out if hypnosis is more effective than a placebo).

What do you mean what am I trying to say? I'm asking, can we live with only (Arthritis) pain relief medication (assuming that's all the Arthritis medications can do at this time)?

[guff]

But don't all of the listed Arthritis types listed in this thread share one symptom?

what symptom

Anyways, you don't need a placebo to make the experiment a success (the validity of healing though hypnosis), we need a placebo to test against (to find out if hypnosis is more effective than a placebo).

Yes, you do.  If it is just a placebo, then the healing isn't actually from hypnosis.  There's a pretty important distinction there. 

What do you mean what am I trying to say?

you butchered the christ out of the english language with the sentence i was referring to

I'm asking, can we live with only (Arthritis) pain relief medication (assuming that's all the Arthritis medications can do at this time)?

Yes; it's not a life-threatening illness.
what's your point

[musica.cards]

 Don't the symptoms include things like inflamed joints and such? Anyways, I understand now, however, the way hypnosis is supposed to work leads me to believe hypnosis is not a placebo (assuming we are not counting subliminal suggestions as placebos, even though the subconscious is the one that makes the placebo effect possible).

Also, based off of your post, am I right to assume that there is no medication that actually heals Arthritis?

[guff]

Also, based off of your post, am I right to assume that there is no medication that actually heals Arthritis?

AS I'VE SAID BEFORE IT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE 

osteoarthritis and rheumatoid, no
ones that are caused by an infection, yes usually