It is the idea that when man does something great, they give all the credit to god.
When you encounter a super religious person, they never give man, or themselves, any credit.
"I did great on that final, god helped me through it."
No, maybe it was your hard work and studying for hours before the test.
"My relative survived cancer. God was with us"
No, all the scientists, doctors, nurses, that devoted their life to medicine and worked tirelessly to help your relative saved her.
Its just frustrating.
In my religious view (at least that little bit that is still there), I believe that you need to give yourself some credit sometimes, and give man a lot too, because they are what in reality help you through the tough times. Though, I do think that it is sometimes necessary to thank some higher power. For example, in those life situations that no one has any control over, and you are finding then hard to get through. Like the situation with my grandmother right now, who has cancer and was taken off all treatment and pretty much is just riding it out now. I seem to find myself talking to empty space, no one, asking for her comfortable departure from life, and hoping that she will be somewhere happy after her death.
So yea, any views on this idea?
i think that's ridiculous. if a couple of docs save someone with cancer, and the patient is like "THANK YOU GOD OH IF IT WASNT FOR HIM ID BE DEAD RIGHT NOW", it's not like they're taking all the credit away from the hard working doctors. they're just throwing in a third guy whom some might argue doesn't exist.vand any doctor who is like "pssh it wasnt him it was me why dont i get any recognition" is, i dunno, crazy?
i just think that's sort of a dumb reason to hate religion. if you think it's illogical, then fine go hate on it. b
I posted something about that before when FuuMastaPunk said something about God saving him from committing suicide.
I find the notion to be silly and both extremely arrogant and degrading. There is an arrogance in assuming that a being has chosen to care about
you, over every thing else in a 93+ billion light year universe(children dying from hunger? nah b. God is busy helping me win the super bowl dawg.). Degrading because these people attribute every human and personal accomplishment to "God". The doctors just spent 12 hours operating on me to save my life? THANK THE LORD, fuck the doctors.
Quote from: FDR on June 02, 2010, 07:32:42 PM
i think that's ridiculous. if a couple of docs save someone with cancer, and the patient is like "THANK YOU GOD OH IF IT WASNT FOR HIM ID BE DEAD RIGHT NOW", it's not like they're taking all the credit away from the hard working doctors. they're just throwing in a third guy whom some might argue doesn't exist.vand any doctor who is like "pssh it wasnt him it was me why dont i get any recognition" is, i dunno, crazy?
i just think that's sort of a dumb reason to hate religion. if you think it's illogical, then fine go hate on it. b
How often do you see those PRAISE DA LORD people include the doctors in their thanks? I see it quite frequently and the actual entities responsible almost never get credit for it.
Quote from: Khadafi on June 02, 2010, 07:48:18 PM
I posted something about that before when FuuMastaPunk said something about God saving him from committing suicide.
I find the notion to be silly and both extremely arrogant and degrading. There is an arrogance in assuming that a being has chosen to care about you, over every thing else in a 93+ billion light year universe(children dying from hunger? nah b. God is busy helping me win the super bowl dawg.). Degrading because these people attribute every human and personal accomplishment to "God". The doctors just spent 12 hours operating on me to save my life? THANK THE LORD, fuck the doctors. How often do you see those PRAISE DA LORD people include the doctors in their thanks? I see it quite frequently and the actual entities responsible almost never get credit for it.
I think it's rather silly to degrade one's perception of how they overcame the temptation of ending their life. The emotional weight and intense experiences of their relationship with God shouldn't be considered any less worthy than any other typical human experience. They give much more credit to God because of the experiences and interconnectedness that they and their God both share--something that modern doctors lack (Intrapersonal connections and emotional acknowledgment rarely happen in a clinical office)
It's pretty much just rude to not thank someone for a service whether it's the guy behind the counter at McDonald's or the doctor who saved your life; Sounds more like an etiquette problem to me
Quote from: Khadafi on June 02, 2010, 07:48:18 PM
I posted something about that before when FuuMastaPunk said something about God saving him from committing suicide.
I think God may save you from suicide in that suicide is a one way ticket to hell at least within Christianity n_u
Quote from: Analysis Paralysis on June 02, 2010, 07:59:15 PM
I think it's rather silly to degrade one's perception of how they overcame the temptation of ending their life. The emotional weight and intense experiences of their relationship with God shouldn't be considered any less worthy than any other typical human experience. They give much more credit to God because of the experiences and interconnectedness that they and their God both share--something that modern doctors lack (Intrapersonal connections and emotional acknowledgment rarely happen in a clinical office)
but there is no god.
there are doctors
even if you believe in god. you only have faith in god. you see the doctors. If god were the one doing the saving, why would you go to a doctor?
Quote from: YPR on June 02, 2010, 08:01:23 PMI think God may save you from suicide in that suicide is a one way ticket to hell at least within Christianity n_u
Good thing RDX is a muslim. 72 Virgins here we come n_u
Quote from: Khadafi on June 02, 2010, 08:20:33 PM
but there is no god.
there are doctors
even if you believe in god. you only have faith in god. you see the doctors. If god were the one doing the saving, why would you go to a doctor? Good thing RDX is a muslim. 72 Virgins here we come n_u
oh silly you can't interrogate your beliefs into another akudood;
also christian logic would be "because god provided the doctors there so i shall use them"
wouldn't god provide the disease? why are they disregarding god's gift intended to bring them to heaven sooner?
Quote from: Khadafi on June 02, 2010, 08:23:43 PM
wouldn't god provide the disease? why are they disregarding god's gift intended to bring them to heaven sooner?
I DUNNO LOL
i am not a christian bassir;
Quote from: Analysis Paralysis on June 02, 2010, 07:59:15 PM
I think it's rather silly to degrade one's perception of how they overcame the temptation of ending their life. The emotional weight and intense experiences of their relationship with God shouldn't be considered any less worthy than any other typical human experience. They give much more credit to God because of the experiences and interconnectedness that they and their God both share--something that modern doctors lack (Intrapersonal connections and emotional acknowledgment rarely happen in a clinical office)
I think that if someone didn't believe in a god or an afterlife, they would be less inclined to kill themself in the first place.
Obviously that probably doesn't apply to everyone, but it seems like a reasonable idea.
Plus, the beauty of understanding that science provides and the ability to know the truth about a big part of why you are here, and a desire to know more is definitely a good enough reason for me to not kill myself.
Again, just my opinion
I don't mind any of that, actually. I just don't like it when they show up on my doorstep or they're at some store or place trying to tell me about God. If I had any intention of learning about god, I'd go to church.
And when they bash people. Someone invited me to go to church so I went and for half of the time they spent preaching they were talking about how Japanese people were "stupid" and "had the dumbest ways of believing in high powers." They said "God is the only true god and it's our duty to tell these people why they're wrong."
And I was like "Uhhhh, what?"
Quote from: Khadafi on June 02, 2010, 08:20:33 PM
Good thing RDX is a muslim. 72 Virgins here we come n_u
It's a sin in Islam too
"He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Fire, and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself, he shall keep stabbing himself in the Fire."
Quote from: Selkie on June 02, 2010, 08:36:49 PM
I think that if someone didn't believe in a god or an afterlife, they would be less inclined to kill themself in the first place.
Most organized religions view suicide as a grave offense though. I think the thought of eternal damnation is worse than non-existance which would be seen by some as peace
Quote from: FDR on June 02, 2010, 09:12:30 PM
i'll need more than that ;)
a mule and 40 acres
also the claim of eternal damnation is a bit too hyperbolic. Islam has a limited time in hell or whatever until the sins are paid off or something to that effect. christianity would only be until the return of christ
Actually you only get out of hell if you're a Muslim. Everyone else stays there forever, unless a Hafiz pulls them out or something. Or if they never hit puberty, then they go to Heaven.
Quote from: Khadafi on June 02, 2010, 09:16:47 PM
also the claim of eternal damnation is a bit too hyperbolic. Islam has a limited time in hell or whatever until the sins are paid off or something to that effect. christianity would only be until the return of christ
Does a limited time in hell really seem that much more appealing
Oh, I missed the point of JMV's post.
If you kill yourself you get stuck in hell anyway no matter who you were or what you were.
Quote from: YPR on June 02, 2010, 09:31:21 PM
Does a limited time in hell really seem that much more appealing
kind of...
When you really think about it, mathematically, a trillion years is still infinitely better than eternal suffering.
Quote from: Selkie on June 02, 2010, 09:47:37 PM
kind of...
When you really think about it, mathematically, a trillion years is still infinitely better than eternal suffering.
Yes, but is it better than whatever suffering you may encounter on earth which is over in a mere oh let's say 80 years
Quote from: FDR on June 02, 2010, 09:37:44 PM
Oh, I missed the point of JMV's post.
If you kill yourself you get stuck in hell anyway no matter who you were or what you were.
what if i killed myself to save a bus full of christian children and lovable puppies because the serial killer is easily triggered by my movements
And by doing nothing to stop hos death is christ not indirectly responsible for his own death?
I am alive. I am a God.
Quote from: Khadafi on June 03, 2010, 05:15:43 AM
And by doing nothing to stop hos death is christ not indirectly responsible for his own death?
Yes? I don't see how that's comparable to suicide at all unless you'd consider anyone given a death sentence to be committing suicide
Quote from: Analysis Paralysis on June 03, 2010, 03:46:20 AM
what if i killed myself to save a bus full of christian children and lovable puppies because the serial killer is easily triggered by my movements
then that would be a sacrifice
I'm pretty sure sacrifice is held in high esteem inside the Christian doctrine, but I'm not too sure. I mean, there's this one very important Christian figure who sacrificed himself for humanity, I can't seem to remember his name. befuddlement
Would that mean if you believed ending your life would better humanity suicide would be alright?
Quote from: Khadafi on June 03, 2010, 05:58:18 PM
Would that mean if you believed ending your life would better humanity suicide would be alright?
Quote from: Analysis Paralysis on June 02, 2010, 08:32:18 PM
I DUNNO LOL
i am not a christian bassir;
Quote from: Khadafi on June 03, 2010, 05:58:18 PM
Would that mean if you believed ending your life would better humanity suicide would be alright?
Nope, how would one even have proof of that? In the examples of sacrifice (Jesus, clucky on a bus) neither of them directly killed themselves either.
Also I misspoke earlier... I'm only speaking from a Catholic perspective, some liberal protestant Churches view it as forgivable
Quote from: YPR on June 03, 2010, 08:37:51 PM
Nope, how would one even have proof of that?
in a thread about god i need no proof
Quote from: Khadafi on June 03, 2010, 10:24:08 PM
in a thread about god i need no proof
You need a reason as to why the world would be better off without your hypothetical man. Don't make me get Clarence on his ass akudood;
Main reason I don't like religion is that it teaches people to be okay with and non-questioning of the universe around us. I believe I may be subconsciously paraphrasing a Richard Dawkins quote, as cliché as that is. Will post it back here later if I find it.
edit: oh hey
"As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect."
Quote from: Thyme on June 03, 2010, 09:38:06 AM
then that would be a sacrifice
I'm pretty sure sacrifice is held in high esteem inside the Christian doctrine, but I'm not too sure. I mean, there's this one very important Christian figure who sacrificed himself for humanity, I can't seem to remember his name. befuddlement
would it really be sacrifice if my original intent was suicide (I didn't care about the children, but the opportunity was presented so hey) :3
Quote from: Analysis Paralysis on June 04, 2010, 11:04:34 PM
would it really be sacrifice if my original intent was suicide (I didn't care about the children, but the opportunity was presented so hey) :3
for some yes for some no
boring vague answer omg~ bassir;
Quote from: Analysis Paralysis on June 04, 2010, 11:04:34 PM
would it really be sacrifice if my original intent was suicide (I didn't care about the children, but the opportunity was presented so hey) :3
According to the Doctrine of Double Effect, you would GO TO HELL. baddood;
That is, of course, assuming that suicide was wrong to begin with...
Suicide is basically seen as murder so if you're going to do it you better have a damn good reason baddood;
Quote from: YPR on June 05, 2010, 11:10:24 AM
Suicide is basically seen as murder so if you're going to do it you better have a damn good reason baddood;
What's a good reason? befuddlement
Quote from: DAVID DOWNER on June 05, 2010, 11:20:17 AM
What's a good reason? befuddlement
For murder? Self-defense I guess?
For suicide? Self-def- I dunno
Quote from: YPR on June 05, 2010, 11:23:18 AM
For murder? Self-defense I guess?
For suicide? Self-def- I dunno
How about when a person has lost all freedom?
Quote from: Potty Mus on June 05, 2010, 11:26:42 AM
How about when a person has lost all freedom?
Depends I suppose befuddlement
It would have to be a last resort type thing
Quote from: YPR on June 05, 2010, 11:32:11 AM
Depends I suppose befuddlement
It would have to be a last resort type thing
Maybe. psyduck;
What if one killed themselves for rejecting God as prescribed in the bible?
Quote from: Khadafi on June 05, 2010, 12:34:48 PM
What if one killed themselves for rejecting God as prescribed in the bible?
You go to double hell? Dunno
What if you kill yourself because you know someone is going to murder you anyways and you'd rather go by your own means than at the hands of someone else?
ms. godcock will my pussy cat go to heaven?
Quote from: Nyerp on June 06, 2010, 12:02:33 PM
ms. godcock will my pussy cat go to heaven?
Sadly, no. Your cat will stay in purgatory until it is deemed that he can go to heaven.
Quote from: DAVID DOWNER on June 06, 2010, 12:20:46 PM
Sadly, no. Your cat will stay in purgatory until it is deemed that he can go to heaven.
he puked in daddy's shoes this morning, is that a sin???
Quote from: Nyerp on June 06, 2010, 10:47:51 PM
he puked in daddy's shoes this morning, is that a sin???
Yes. Anything having to do with the body is a sin.
God has nothing to do with what happens in your life - you and others around you make it happen.
I was in a relationship with someone who had a religion-obsessed family, and coming from a non-religious background myself, it was really hard not to say "I've got to where I am in my life without any influence from him, it's your actions, not his that make your life." (disrespectful, I know.)
In my opinion (bias probably to religious people because I've never experienced being religious) saying "God helped me with this" is disillusioning yourself that you've had help through something you helped yourself through.
Fucking god damn it learn independence, stop acting as if someone's always holding your hand.
God: the sun, the light, etc.
Man: invented electricity and thus, lights
Man: landed on the fucking moon
There is a god, and he is known as "the human race".
Quote from: Stagger Lee on July 13, 2010, 08:30:46 AM
God: the sun, the light, etc.
Man: invented electricity and thus, lights
Man: landed on the fucking moon
There is a god, and he is known as "the human race".
My what large hubris you have