Boyah Forums

Since the "Religion as a bad thing", or whatever, thread was really old, I figured I might as well attempt to answer a couple questions, since I've been gone a while.

Quote from: RDX on June 05, 2009, 07:12:05 PM
Who? Me?

I can reword it if you want. Honest to God I just want to fucking know. I must've asked 10 different Christians and none of them can answer me and it pisses me off. Doesn't anyone know?

Reworded:
If Jesus died for everyone's sins, why do the rules set in the Bible matter? Couldn't I go around fornicating and butsexing everyone I see and then repent and then go to Heaven regardless?

Well, technically, yes. But once you accept Jesus into your life, you wouldn't want to. I mean, I got back from Church Camp a few days ago, and I decided to quit any addictions I have (masterbation, porn, etc...). So far, I've accomplished it, but it's hard. I could easily do it at this moment. But, the thing is...I don't want to. That separates me from God. Sure, I could just ask for forgiveness, but it's kinda hypocritical to sin and repent, just to sin on purpose again. Most Christians I know refer to this as "backsliding".

But, answering your question, yes.

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 05, 2009, 07:14:58 PM
It depends on if you ask Catholics or Protestants
Isn't that just catholics? At least in a different sense than that of Protestants

Jesus died for our sins, no matter which branch of Christianity, Catholic or Protistant. It's more down to personal opinion. To me, the Bible does matter. It's not just a big book or rules; it has a lot of very wise proverbs (hense the book, Proverbs...) that everybody could learn to make their life more bearable. It also gives hope, like my favorite verse, Philippians 1:21. (You can look that one up yourself. Too lazy to type it.) It's much more than a set code of morals and stories. Plus, it has answers to pretty much any question about your daily life or afflictions, like depression, cheating, how to control your anger, and much more.

As for the Holy Trinity, that's also an entire religion thing. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the Holy Trinity.

Quote from: RDX on June 05, 2009, 07:25:39 PM
at this point i dont care which sect i get the answer from i just want to know if anyone knows how to solve this dilemma i have in understanding why jesus would die for everyone's sins.

Well, the reason why God sacrificed Jesus was because he loved us. (Or, for JMV's sake, because he's a murderous bastard that hated his son. [spoiler](I felt my humanity slip a little after that...)[/spoiler]) I mean, if you gave your only child's life so I could live, you'd really have to love me, wouldn't you? Imagine that, but times the entire population of the world from that moment until now. Jesus died to keep us from having to live in an eternal damnation. The only catch; you have to believe he did that.

That help any? Or do you need more?

[spoiler]Cue JMV.[/spoiler]

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei

QuoteIf Jesus died for everyone's sins, why do the rules set in the Bible matter? Couldn't I go around fornicating and butsexing everyone I see and then repent and then go to Heaven regardless?

Because once you truly repent, you're a changed person. You begin to abandon your desire to do those things because they are of the flesh instead of the spirit. Your standing with the Lord is shown through the fruit of the spirit; those who bear bad fruit are not spiritually healthy, while those who do are.

ohhhhhhhh boyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 15, 2009, 05:04:27 PMWell, technically, yes. But once you accept Jesus into your life, you wouldn't want to.

Of course you would. There're plenty of Christians doing that right now.

QuoteI mean, I got back from Church Camp a few days ago, and I decided to quit any addictions I have (masterbation, porn, etc...). So far, I've accomplished it, but it's hard.

wut. well i guess that's good if you don't want to look at porn yay

QuoteI could easily do it at this moment. But, the thing is...I don't want to. That separates me from God. Sure, I could just ask for forgiveness, but it's kinda hypocritical to sin and repent, just to sin on purpose again. Most Christians I know refer to this as "backsliding".

According to the bible eating pork and shellfish separate you from God, do you reject those too? Do you ask for forgiveness after eating a bacon cheeseburger?

QuoteBut, answering your question, yes.

so what you are saying God is egotistical enough that if someone worships him they will go to heaven even if they lead a life like that, yet someone who doesn't accept him will go to hell regardless?

Gandhi goes to hell while priests who rape children get a ticket to heaven?

QuoteJesus died for our sins, no matter which branch of Christianity, Catholic or Protistant. It's more down to personal opinion.

No, it's down to doctrine. Some branches teach that accepting Christ alone isn't enough.

It seems your church believes that accepting Christ guarantees that spot in heaven. I've heard the opposite from many catholics: leading a good life is what gets you in heaven. It's not the accepting of christ alone.

QuoteTo me, the Bible does matter. It's not just a big book or rules; it has a lot of very wise proverbs (hense the book, Proverbs...) that everybody could learn to make their life more bearable. It also gives hope, like my favorite verse, Philippians 1:21. (You can look that one up yourself. Too lazy to type it.) It's much more than a set code of morals and stories.

The hope that you too can be cast into a lake of fire and suffer for all eternity?

QuotePlus, it has answers to pretty much any question about your daily life or afflictions, like depression, cheating, how to control your anger, and much more.

No it doesn't.

QuoteAs for the Holy Trinity, that's also an entire religion thing. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the Holy Trinity.

Like I said, that depends. Some believe they're the same entity while others don't.

QuoteWell, the reason why God sacrificed Jesus was because he loved us. (Or, for JMV's sake, because he's a murderous bastard that hated his son. [spoiler](I felt my humanity slip a little after that...)[/spoiler])

If you're going to go for "JMV's sake" it would make more sense to go "He didn't because he's not real.

QuoteI mean, if you gave your only child's life so I could live

I thought we were all God's children?

Quoteyou'd really have to love me, wouldn't you?

Is it love if his motivation is to force gratitude and worship under the threat of punishment?

QuoteImagine that, but times the entire population of the world from that moment until now.

what

QuoteJesus died to keep us from having to live in an eternal damnation.

So let me get this straight:
God damned all of humanity because he left the first man and women ignorant of right and wrong and they did wrong. He then destroyed all of humanity except 8 people because they did wrong. He then killed millions more over the next four thousand years.

He then sends himself/his son to die for our sins so we don't have to go to Hell even though he was the one who decided to curse us all?

And omniscient God clearly would have known the serpent would tempt Eve. He knew that Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil. Their lack of knowledge and his indifference to preventing such is the reason he had to sacrifice his own son.

QuoteThe only catch; you have to believe he did that.

Drats

QuoteThat help any? Or do you need more?

I need the part that makes sense

Quote[spoiler]Cue JMV.[/spoiler]

spam;

QuoteOf course you would. There're plenty of Christians doing that right now.

People who claim to be saved yet purposely ignore God's commandments aren't Christians.

QuoteGandhi goes to hell while priests who rape children get a ticket to heaven?

uh no they go to hell too

QuoteAccording to the bible eating pork and shellfish separate you from God, do you reject those too? Do you ask for forgiveness after eating a bacon cheeseburger?

Those were rules for the Jews, and Jesus declared that null, anyway.

QuoteIt seems your church believes that accepting Christ guarantees that spot in heaven. I've heard the opposite from many catholics: leading a good life is what gets you in heaven. It's not the accepting of christ alone.

Accepting Christ and following him leads to a "good" life (though that's really a subjective term, anyway).

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 15, 2009, 05:36:09 PM


Gandhi goes to hell while priests who rape children get a ticket to heaven?

Unless we're talking about one of the branches you mentioned that don't see accepting Christ and asking him to forgive our sins as enough, anyone who sins without repentance goes to Hell, no matter who they are. All sins are equal, and they are all equally forgiven. You may see it as weird that a murderer is equal to an adulterer in God's eyes, but that's just the way it is.

Everyone has an equal shot for Heaven or Hell.

Quote from: Zach on June 15, 2009, 05:45:39 PM
People who claim to be saved yet purposely ignore God's commandments aren't Christians.

And more logical fallacies...
No true Scotsman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)

Quoteuh no they go to hell too

Not according to your friend: "But, answering your question, yes."

QuoteThose were rules for the Jews, and Jesus declared that null, anyway.

Where did he nullify those rules? So how do you know which rules stick and which ones don't?
Or how about Jesus saying stuff about material possessions being bad. is that only selective

QuoteAccepting Christ and following him leads to a "good" life (though that's really a subjective term, anyway).

are you telling me that a secular charity and those donating time to it aren't leading a good life because they don't accept some random arab?

Quote from: Ken on June 15, 2009, 05:51:02 PM
Unless we're talking about one of the branches you mentioned that don't see accepting Christ and asking him to forgive our sins as enough, anyone who sins without repentance goes to Hell, no matter who they are. All sins are equal, and they are all equally forgiven. You may see it as weird that a murderer is equal to an adulterer in God's eyes, but that's just the way it is.

Everyone has an equal shot for Heaven or Hell.

The point was that Gandhi goes to Hell because he was Hindu while a priest can go to heaven if he repents.

QuoteAnd more logical fallacies...

No. Claiming that you're saved doesn't make you a Christian.

QuoteNot according to your friend: "But, answering your question, yes."

Priests who rape children do not go to heaven unless they turn away from their sin and turn to God for forgiveness. I'm willing to bet that any priest who rapes a children isn't truly saved, anyway.

QuoteWhere did he nullify those rules? So how do you know which rules stick and which ones don't?
Or how about Jesus saying stuff about material possessions being bad. is that only selective

I thought we were talking about the food laws in particular, and I upon further research I may have misunderstood the context of what I was referring to, so I'll get back to you on that. But know this: We are not subject to the rules God issued the Israelites on Mount Sinai (like unclean meats, etc.) - that was part of God's old covenant with the Jews.

Quoteare you telling me that a secular charity and those donating time to it aren't leading a good life because they don't accept some random arab?

Depends on what you mean by "good life." Secular charity can be a good thing, but it doesn't make anyone better spiritually. Works without faith are dead in the spiritual sense.

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 15, 2009, 05:54:25 PM
The point was that Gandhi goes to Hell because he was Hindu while a priest can go to heaven if he repents.

Gandhi could have gone to Heaven, too, if he had repented.

Quote from: Zach on June 15, 2009, 06:58:45 PM
No. Claiming that you're saved doesn't make you a Christian.

Believing you're saved does.

QuotePriests who rape children do not go to heaven unless they turn away from their sin and turn to God for forgiveness. I'm willing to bet that any priest who rapes a children isn't truly saved, anyway.

Maybe they are saved after asking god to forgive them after the 10th child.

QuoteI thought we were talking about the food laws in particular, and I upon further research I may have misunderstood the context of what I was referring to, so I'll get back to you on that.

THE POWER OF GOD

QuoteBut know this: We are not subject to the rules God issued the Israelites on Mount Sinai (like unclean meats, etc.) - that was part of God's old covenant with the Jews.

What about the commandments  baddood;

QuoteDepends on what you mean by "good life." Secular charity can be a good thing, but it doesn't make anyone better spiritually. Works without faith are dead in the spiritual sense.

Works that are done without expecting a reward are better IMO.

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 15, 2009, 07:23:19 PM
Believing you're saved does.

If you go on a tangent in your thinking, then yes, but technically a Christian is simply someone who has accepted Christ. I don't think most people think of it as "I'm saved, so that makes me a Christian." It's "I've accepted Christ and I'm following his teachings, so that makes me a Christian."

Quote from: Ken on June 15, 2009, 07:53:48 PM
If you go on a tangent in your thinking, then yes, but technically a Christian is simply someone who has accepted Christ. I don't think most people think of it as "I'm saved, so that makes me a Christian." It's "I've accepted Christ and I'm following his teachings, so that makes me a Christian."

If Christian's followed Jesus' teachings then there would be no economic conservatives and none of the current churches would exist in the same manner they do now.

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 15, 2009, 07:59:24 PM
If Christian's followed Jesus' teachings then there would be no economic conservatives and none of the current churches would exist in the same manner they do now.

Don't lump all Christians together into the ones doing it incorrectly. That's just as ignorant and annoying as lumping all atheists together.

Most of the Christians I know (my town, Baudette, is mostly Christian, and so is my girlfriend) don't fit your negative image at all. Believe it or not there are churches following his teachings as they should, treating their fellow men as Christ would (or at least trying to), etc. That's the way things should be, but religion is simply an abused system.

Quote from: Ken on June 15, 2009, 08:02:29 PM
Don't lump all Christians together into the ones doing it incorrectly. That's just as ignorant and annoying as lumping all atheists together.

Most of the Christians I know (my town, Baudette, is mostly Christian, and so is my girlfriend) don't fit your negative image at all. Believe it or not there are churches following his teachings as they should, treating their fellow men as Christ would (or at least trying to), etc. That's the way things should be, but religion is simply an abused system.

Where did I lump all Christians together?

I said
1.)They would not be economic conservatives.  That is only concerning the ones who are economic conservatives.  Must I go over Christ's supposed teachings regarding the poor, the rich, and material possessions?
2.)I specifically mentioned churches in the second half of the sentence, not Christians.  Those too go against those same teachings and others.

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 15, 2009, 08:06:03 PM
Where did I lump all Christians together?

I said
1.)They would not be economic conservatives.  That is only concerning the ones who are economic conservatives.  Must I go over Christ's supposed teachings regarding the poor, the rich, and material possessions?
2.)I specifically mentioned churches in the second half of the sentence, not Christians.  Those too go against those same teachings and others.

Well you just said "Christians" so I assumed you meant all of them. My apologies sir. akudood;

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 15, 2009, 08:06:03 PM
Where did I lump all Christians together?

I said
1.)They would not be economic conservatives.  That is only concerning the ones who are economic conservatives.  Must I go over Christ's supposed teachings regarding the poor, the rich, and material possessions?

My personal beliefs do not necessarily translate to what I think the government should be doing. It's all about the government's role in things.

Quote
2.)I specifically mentioned churches in the second half of the sentence, not Christians.  Those too go against those same teachings and others.

Yes.

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 15, 2009, 07:23:19 PM
Believing you're saved does.

not necessarily

there are a lot of people who believe that they are saved but aren't

Quote
Maybe they are saved after asking god to forgive them after the 10th child.

Asking God to forgive you is meaningless if you aren't truly repentant of what you have done. Repentance is about realizing the filth of your sin and turning away from it; raping ten children with the intention of asking God to forgive you afterward isn't the sign of someone that is truly repentant.

Quote
What about the commandments  baddood;

not what i was talking about

Quote
Works that are done without expecting a reward are better IMO.

uh yeah

True Christians aren't looking to help the poor because they are seeking a reward.

Yay! He doesn't understand!!!

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 15, 2009, 05:36:09 PM
wut. well i guess that's good if you don't want to look at porn yay

Well, it's a sin, and an addiction at that. By controlling my lusty, fleshly body, I feel closer to God, and I don't feel like a hypocrite while I'm looking at "lesbian milf".

QuoteAccording to the bible eating pork and shellfish separate you from God, do you reject those too? Do you ask for forgiveness after eating a bacon cheeseburger?

I'm not Jewish, so that particular law doesn't apply to me. Ask any Jew.

Quoteso what you are saying God is egotistical enough that if someone worships him they will go to heaven even if they lead a life like that, yet someone who doesn't accept him will go to hell regardless?

Yes. That's the sad fact of life. But, there is one thing you're forgetting. Have the people who said they accepted Christ who continue to sin really accepted Christ? Something I learned about at Church Camp is "lip-servicing". In otherwords, they say they've accepted Christ, yet they're liars. There's a statistic that our pastor told us that only 1 out of every 4 people in America alone who say they're Christians are actually going to Heaven.

Besides, about your egotistical comment. If he created the world, then doesn't he have the right to be egotistical? I mean, everything you know, he knew already. Everything you see, God knew it was coming. Since you don't believe in God anymore, I can see how this comment is completely useless to you, but, think about it. Either he exists and he made the world, which gives him the right to seem egotistical, or he doesn't exist.

QuoteGandhi goes to hell while priests who rape children get a ticket to heaven?

Sadly, yes. But like I said in my previous post, are those "priests" are really saved?

QuoteNo, it's down to doctrine. Some branches teach that accepting Christ alone isn't enough.

Well, that would be Catholicism. You have to pay your way there. (Not exactly the most attractive, is it?) As far as I know, all of the Protestant branches pretty much the same.

QuoteIt seems your church believes that accepting Christ guarantees that spot in heaven. I've heard the opposite from many catholics: leading a good life is what gets you in heaven. It's not the accepting of christ alone.

Yes. With Baptists (and I'm sure Methodists, Penicostals, Lutherians, etc...), you're name is written down in the Book of Life the moment you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. Being good won't get you anywhere but a one way ticket to hell. It's impossible to be good enough to make it to heaven.

QuoteThe hope that you too can be cast into a lake of fire and suffer for all eternity?

I won't be. I truly feel like my name has been written down. I have nothing to fear. Hell is used for those who don't believe, to let them know that they will be punished if they die without accepting Christ.

QuoteNo it doesn't.

Give me a few days, and a few topics, and I'll find whatever you need.

QuoteLike I said, that depends. Some believe they're the same entity while others don't.

Eh...that's actually a weird question. They're different, yet they're the same. Like ice, water, and steam. They're all different forms of matter, but in the end, they're water. It's pretty much the same thing with the Trinity.

QuoteIf you're going to go for "JMV's sake" it would make more sense to go "He didn't because he's not real.

Gotcha.

QuoteI thought we were all God's children?

We are. I was giving a singular example. If you gave (insert the name of someone you love a lot)'s life to keep me from dying, wouldn't that be a very huge sacrifice. Also, you know that I'm a lustful little bastard that's constantly arguing with you. Wouldn't you really have to love me to let them die so I could live?

QuoteIs it love if his motivation is to force gratitude and worship under the threat of punishment?

Isn't that why you're expected to obey your parents? I know that if I disobey my mom, I'm getting grounded. Once I have children, until they're teenagers, I'll spank them. I won't spank them because I hate them. I spank them because I'll love them, and because I want them to know that I know what's wrong and what's right. Same thing with God. It's not forced; it's expected. You can disobey him all you want, but you'll get punished. That's life.

Quotewhat

The sacrificing someone thing, but sacrificing that one person for the entire world. Clearer?

QuoteSo let me get this straight:
God damned all of humanity because he left the first man and women ignorant of right and wrong and they did wrong. He then destroyed all of humanity except 8 people because they did wrong. He then killed millions more over the next four thousand years.

No. He didn't damn Adam and Eve until they disobeyed him. He told them specifically to not eat of that particular tree. Because they did, they learned the difference between right and wrong, and were damned for their disobedience. As with Noah, he gave those people nearly 600 years to repent. None did. Moses was constantly working on the ark and telling everybody about God, but not a single thing would work. They were punished for their disobedience. Noah and his family, who believed and did as God said, were spared.

So far, everything you've mentioned was because they disobeyed God. Doesn't that kinda seem like a heads up?

QuoteHe then sends himself/his son to die for our sins so we don't have to go to Hell even though he was the one who decided to curse us all?

God didn't damn us; we did. Our sins are the reason we're going to hell. Pretend you care about the Bible for a moment.

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 2:23
"But God commentdeth his love toward us, in that, while we were sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9

Look familiar? It's the Roman Road. We're all sinned, and because we sin, we've earned nothing but a one-way ticket to hell. But because God loves us, he gave us his only sun as a sacrifice to appease our death sentence. The only way to accept that pardon is to accept Jesus into our hearts as our Savior.

Really, you should read the Bible more.

QuoteAnd omniscient God clearly would have known the serpent would tempt Eve. He knew that Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil. Their lack of knowledge and his indifference to preventing such is the reason he had to sacrifice his own son.

Freedom of choice. Eve knew she wasn't supposed to eat of it. Satan tempted her with how beautiful the sin looked, and she fell for it. That's how it works in life. She may have not known the difference between right and wrong, but she knew what God told her. Satan lied to her to get her to sin against God. And when it came to Adam, Eve told him how good the fruit was, so, since he had no reason to not believe her, he ate the fruit as well. Again, the exact same way it works in life. They had a choice to not eat the fruit, but they did anyways. God's not going to beat you into not sinning. That wouldn't be very free, would it?

QuoteDrats

Sucks, dunnit?

QuoteI need the part that makes sense

Okay. Read the Bible.

Quotespam;

giggle;

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 08:25:06 AM
Yay! He doesn't understand!!!
Well, it's a sin, and an addiction at that. By controlling my lusty, fleshly body, I feel closer to God, and I don't feel like a hypocrite while I'm looking at "lesbian milf".

I lol'd

And I believe those who do good and don't officially deny God will go to Heaven.  baddood;
I'm not sure if Ghandi said blatantly he doesn't believe in an Abrahamic god, did he?

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 16, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
I lol'd

And I believe those who do good and don't officially deny God will go to Heaven.  baddood;
I'm not sure if Ghandi said blatantly he doesn't believe in an Abrahamic god, did he?

He was Hindu.

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 16, 2009, 08:35:25 AM
He was Hindu.

Okay, so then he obviously didn't believe in God.
Lawl, why would he want to go to a kingdom he didn't believe in?  :3

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 16, 2009, 08:37:15 AM
Okay, so then he obviously didn't believe in God.
Lawl, why would he want to go to a kingdom he didn't believe in?  :3

I don't think he'd want to go to Hell either and for worshipping "false gods" that's exactly where he went.

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 16, 2009, 08:37:15 AM
Okay, so then he obviously didn't believe in God.
Lawl, why would he want to go to a kingdom he didn't believe in?  :3

Because that kingdom is freaking awesome.

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 16, 2009, 08:38:25 AM
I don't think he'd want to go to Hell either and for worshipping "false gods" that's exactly where he went.

Purgatory y/n

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 08:39:34 AM
Because that kingdom is freaking awesome.

Does God want people there who don't want to be? baddood;

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 16, 2009, 08:40:21 AM
Purgatory y/n

sorry puu doesn't believe in that

QuoteDoes God want people there who don't want to be? baddood;

not believing in something isn't equal to not wanting to be there.

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 16, 2009, 08:44:25 AM
sorry puu doesn't believe in that

He finally caught on!  n_u

Quotenot believing in something isn't equal to not wanting to be there.

In a way, it is. If you don't believe in it, you obviously don't want it. Although, it's not the same the other way around...

what? how the fuck do you not believe in purgatory? i thought you were catholic...  doodhuh;

one time i saw a jesus fish that was missing part of the tail fin so i figured that it had gotten bit by a jesus shark  akudood;

Quote from: guff on June 16, 2009, 08:59:18 AM
one time i saw a jesus fish that was missing part of the tail fin so i figured that it had gotten bit by a jesus shark  akudood;

i think it was you who ate it guff  akudood;

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 16, 2009, 08:49:27 AM
what? how the fuck do you not believe in purgatory? i thought you were catholic...  doodhuh;

Baptist.

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 09:03:34 AM
Baptist.

I actually suspected that, the way you preach...

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 16, 2009, 09:04:49 AM
I actually suspected that, the way you preach...

CAN I GET A HALLELUJAH

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 16, 2009, 09:04:49 AM
I actually suspected that, the way you preach...

And I presume you're Catholic?

Quote from: guff on June 16, 2009, 09:05:36 AM
CAN I GET A HALLELUJAH

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB_VpOQC1wU[/youtube]

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 09:06:36 AM
And I presume you're Catholic?

Yes, sir.  happydood;

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 16, 2009, 09:12:36 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB_VpOQC1wU[/youtube]

That is my type of church! WHOOO!

QuoteYes, sir.  happydood;

Looks like Protestants and Catholics can get along! giggle;

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 08:25:06 AM
Well, it's a sin, and an addiction at that. By controlling my lusty, fleshly body, I feel closer to God, and I don't feel like a hypocrite while I'm looking at "lesbian milf".

dammit i said good for you i wasn't objecting it.

QuoteI'm not Jewish, so that particular law doesn't apply to me. Ask any Jew.

is there a book named "the laws for jews only"

QuoteYes. That's the sad fact of life. But, there is one thing you're forgetting. Have the people who said they accepted Christ who continue to sin really accepted Christ?

Here's the set up...

QuoteSomething I learned about at Church Camp is "lip-servicing". In otherwords, they say they've accepted Christ, yet they're liars.

And a rewording of the No true Scotsman fallacy again.

QuoteThere's a statistic that our pastor told us that only 1 out of every 4 people in America alone who say they're Christians are actually going to Heaven.

...He made up statistics?
Really where did he get those figures?

QuoteBesides, about your egotistical comment. If he created the world, then doesn't he have the right to be egotistical? I mean, everything you know, he knew already. Everything you see, God knew it was coming. Since you don't believe in God anymore, I can see how this comment is completely useless to you, but, think about it. Either he exists and he made the world, which gives him the right to seem egotistical, or he doesn't exist.

I don't think that still would give one the right to be egotistical to the point of forcing worship. I'll go with the latter though, he doesn't exists.

QuoteSadly, yes. But like I said in my previous post, are those "priests" are really saved?

Wouldn't that be your God's call?

QuoteWell, that would be Catholicism. You have to pay your way there. (Not exactly the most attractive, is it?) As far as I know, all of the Protestant branches pretty much the same.

Uh, I'm pretty sure indulgences aren't the only way to get into heaven.  And not all Protestants are the same. There are some that believe in predestination while others don't, etc.

QuoteYes. With Baptists (and I'm sure Methodists, Penicostals, Lutherians, etc...), you're name is written down in the Book of Life the moment you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. Being good won't get you anywhere but a one way ticket to hell. It's impossible to be good enough to make it to heaven.

And not according to Catholics.
Isn't that odd how there is a such a huge disagreement yet you guys use the same Holy Book?
I declare that Catholics are the true Christians THE POWER OF GOD

QuoteI won't be. I truly feel like my name has been written down. I have nothing to fear. Hell is used for those who don't believe, to let them know that they will be punished if they die without accepting Christ.

How unfortunate for those who live in other parts of the world where they weren't exposed to Christianity  and believe their religions which have just as much factual evidence as yours.

QuoteGive me a few days, and a few topics, and I'll find whatever you need.

Never come unprepared goowan

QuoteEh...that's actually a weird question. They're different, yet they're the same. Like ice, water, and steam. They're all different forms of matter, but in the end, they're water. It's pretty much the same thing with the Trinity.

Christ becomes the Holy Spirit at 100Ã,ºC?

QuoteGotcha.

happydood;

QuoteWe are. I was giving a singular example. If you gave (insert the name of someone you love a lot)'s life to keep me from dying, wouldn't that be a very huge sacrifice.

It'd be more meaningful if I gave my own life.

And I thought Jesus didn't die, only his "human body".

QuoteAlso, you know that I'm a lustful little bastard that's constantly arguing with you. Wouldn't you really have to love me to let them die so I could live?

Uh, you're thinking of it wrong.

It'd be like you pissing me off for something you didn't know was wrong and me shooting you in the liver requiring you to get a transplant. You are going to die until I give my son's liver to you and he dies in the process.

You wouldn't be in the situation if I hadn't shot you.

QuoteIsn't that why you're expected to obey your parents? I know that if I disobey my mom, I'm getting grounded.

If you don't love your mom do you get grounded?

QuoteOnce I have children, until they're teenagers, I'll spank them. I won't spank them because I hate them. I spank them because I'll love them,

doodthing;

Quoteand because I want them to know that I know what's wrong and what's right.

We have communication with words for that.

QuoteSame thing with God. It's not forced; it's expected. You can disobey him all you want, but you'll get punished. That's life.

Disobey your parents, get spanked for a few minutes and possibly learn from your mistake--assuming you think spanking is effective--and then maybe not make that mistake again.  Disobey God and get spanked forever with no opportunity to learn that what you did was wrong.

QuoteThe sacrificing someone thing, but sacrificing that one person for the entire world. Clearer?

So instead of making the sacrifice of one person for one person you're doing it for billions of people?

I'd be more willing to sacrifice something if it saved 3 billion people than if it only saved one person.

QuoteNo. He didn't damn Adam and Eve until they disobeyed him. He told them specifically to not eat of that particular tree. Because they did, they learned the difference between right and wrong, and were damned for their disobedience

They didn't know it was wrong until after they ate the fruit.  doodthing;

QuoteAs with Noah, he gave those people nearly 600 years to repent

Maybe he should have watched his angels who knocked up our womens.

QuoteMoses was constantly working on the ark and telling everybody about God, but not a single thing would work.

No he didn't.
Also Noah and maybe god should have talked to them too.

QuoteThey were punished for their disobedience. Noah and his family, who believed and did as God said, were spared.

What about all of the children and babies?
"ur mom and dad were sinners so u drown now"

QuoteSo far, everything you've mentioned was because they disobeyed God. Doesn't that kinda seem like a heads up?

Uh, God killed hundreds of thousands of children and babies. "okay egypt has slaves so im killing all your first borns sorry children your parents don't listen"

QuoteGod didn't damn us; we did. Our sins are the reason we're going to hell. Pretend you care about the Bible for a moment.

He damned humanity with the Fall of Man

Quote"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 2:23
"But God commentdeth his love toward us, in that, while we were sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9

Look familiar? It's the Roman Road. We're all sinned, and because we sin, we've earned nothing but a one-way ticket to hell. But because God loves us, he gave us his only sun as a sacrifice to appease our death sentence. The only way to accept that pardon is to accept Jesus into our hearts as our Savior.

How do children earn a ticket to Hell?
Okay so for 1500 years only Europe was saved?

QuoteReally, you should read the Bible more.

Do you care to highlight which parts are literal, which are metaphors, and the like?

QuoteFreedom of choice. Eve knew she wasn't supposed to eat of it. Satan tempted her with how beautiful the sin looked, and she fell for it.

Humanity had no knowledge of good and evil, nor that they were even naked. She had no choice when a divine being (satan if that's your interpretation) persuades someone without knowledge of right and wrong to do something.

QuoteThat's how it works in life. She may have not known the difference between right and wrong, but she knew what God told her. Satan lied to her to get her to sin against God.

Satan told the truth, God lied.

QuoteAnd when it came to Adam, Eve told him how good the fruit was, so, since he had no reason to not believe her, he ate the fruit as well. Again, the exact same way it works in life. They had a choice to not eat the fruit, but they did anyways. God's not going to beat you into not sinning. That wouldn't be very free, would it?

If Eve ate the fruit first and told Adam would she not know that it was wrong to tell him to eat it? How is it his fault?

QuoteSucks, dunnit?

Okay. Read the Bible.
giggle;

which interpretation of the bible

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 08:48:34 AM
In a way, it is. If you don't believe in it, you obviously don't want it. Although, it's not the same the other way around...

are you stupid
it's completely possible to not believe in something and want it (i.e. wish it existed)

...Wait, when did this start being about corporal punishment? O_0

Quote from: Thyme on June 16, 2009, 09:24:18 AM
...Wait, when did this start being about corporal punishment? O_0

October 23, 4004BC

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 16, 2009, 09:28:15 AM
October 23, 4004BC

I bothered looking that up. maps;

but anyway in any case i believe in corporal punishment although i'm too much of a wuss to ever administer it goonish

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 08:25:06 AM


Isn't that why you're expected to obey your parents? I know that if I disobey my mom, I'm getting grounded. Once I have children, until they're teenagers, I'll spank them. I won't spank them because I hate them. I spank them because I'll love them, and because I want them to know that I know what's wrong and what's right. Same thing with God. It's not forced; it's expected. You can disobey him all you want, but you'll get punished. That's life.

but you'll be teaching your kids that hitting their offspring is correct ;_____;

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 16, 2009, 09:17:57 AM
dammit i said good for you i wasn't objecting it.
is there a book named "the laws for jews only"
Here's the set up...
And a rewording of the No true Scotsman fallacy again.
...He made up statistics?
Really where did he get those figures?
I don't think that still would give one the right to be egotistical to the point of forcing worship. I'll go with the latter though, he doesn't exists.
Wouldn't that be your God's call?
Uh, I'm pretty sure indulgences aren't the only way to get into heaven.  And not all Protestants are the same. There are some that believe in predestination while others don't, etc.
And not according to Catholics.
Isn't that odd how there is a such a huge disagreement yet you guys use the same Holy Book?
I declare that Catholics are the true Christians THE POWER OF GOD
How unfortunate for those who live in other parts of the world where they weren't exposed to Christianity  and believe their religions which have just as much factual evidence as yours.
Never come unprepared goowan
Christ becomes the Holy Spirit at 100Ã,ºC?
happydood;
It'd be more meaningful if I gave my own life.

And I thought Jesus didn't die, only his "human body".
Uh, you're thinking of it wrong.

It'd be like you pissing me off for something you didn't know was wrong and me shooting you in the liver requiring you to get a transplant. You are going to die until I give my son's liver to you and he dies in the process.

You wouldn't be in the situation if I hadn't shot you.


If you don't love your mom do you get grounded?
doodthing;
We have communication with words for that.Disobey your parents, get spanked for a few minutes and possibly learn from your mistake--assuming you think spanking is effective--and then maybe not make that mistake again.  Disobey God and get spanked forever with no opportunity to learn that what you did was wrong.

So instead of making the sacrifice of one person for one person you're doing it for billions of people?

I'd be more willing to sacrifice something if it saved 3 billion people than if it only saved one person.

They didn't know it was wrong until after they ate the fruit.  doodthing;
Maybe he should have watched his angels who knocked up our womens. No he didn't.
Also Noah and maybe god should have talked to them too.

What about all of the children and babies?
"ur mom and dad were sinners so u drown now"

Uh, God killed hundreds of thousands of children and babies. "okay egypt has slaves so im killing all your first borns sorry children your parents don't listen"

He damned humanity with the Fall of Man
How do children earn a ticket to Hell?
Okay so for 1500 years only Europe was saved?
Do you care to highlight which parts are literal, which are metaphors, and the like?
Humanity had no knowledge of good and evil, nor that they were even naked. She had no choice when a divine being (satan if that's your interpretation) persuades someone without knowledge of right and wrong to do something.
Satan told the truth, God lied.

If Eve ate the fruit first and told Adam would she not know that it was wrong to tell him to eat it? How is it his fault?

which interpretation of the bible

Ah, crap. I'm not going to bother quoting every little bit of this. I think you'll get it.

Okay, my bad. I misunderstood.

Yes, there is. It's called the Torah.

The what?

Eh...I don't know where he got them.

If you made a lifeform and it told you to "Fuck off, I'll live life my own way.", wouldn't you get angry and say that, "I created you, I know what's best for you." You know, kinda like a parent?

Exactly. It's always God's call.

Christianity has predestination. If you're talking about Jehovah's Witnesses *cough cough*, that's not Christianity. It's completely different. They don't believe in Hell, so that pretty much kills it.

Well, maybe they are. I don't. know. If it does take good works, then I know that all this hard work I'm doing will certainly get me to Heaven. And if not, then I've got the salvation to back it up. I win either way!

That's where missionaries come in. By now, pretty much every region of the world has been touched by Christianity.

Well, I need to know what you want me to look for, Mr. "I-used-to-be-a-Christian-but-God-pissed-my-off-so-I'm-gonna-throw-a-hissy-fit." I'll find it. (Just get it before Friday. I've got band camp.)

God is the Father, the Creator. Jesus is the Son, the Savior. The Holy Spirit is the...Spirit, the Messenger of God.

I'm told that your child would mean more to you than your own life. Trust me, I've had that argument with plenty of parents. All agree that they'd rather die themselves then let thier sons or daughters even come to harm. And wouldn't that be death, even if it's not spiritual?

Well, then we'll use that. You'd really have to care for my life to give your son's liver, and life, in order to save mine. It's my fault (kinda) why I'm in that situation. But only you can get me out of it.

I pretty much would. If I didn't love my mom, I wouldn't care what she'd say. Therefore, I'd break the rules just to make her angry, which would cause me to lose privledges and possibly even cause her to actually (Dare I say it?...) bend me over her knee and she spank me. (Hasn't happened in many, many years, but you never know....)

And the doodthing; is for what? Me being a good parent who wants to raise my kids out of the worldly belief that kids should be able to do what they want with no punishment? It only takes one swing.

Since when has communication with words ever stopped someone from doing something stupid? If my mom told me to not smoke pot, and I did it, and she told me not to do it again, I'd think, "Well, if that's really all I'm going to get for it, why not get high and tune the bitch out?" Telling me to not do something again would just breed rebellion.

That's really the only case is when it comes to salvation. Look at porn, your girlfriend will find out and she'll cry and not trust you. (Spanking.) Smoke pot, you get caught, you spend a few nights in jail. (Spanking.) You get drunk, drive, and kill a passenger in another care, you spend life in jail for vehicular manslaughter. (Spanking.) You reap what you sow. These punishments are supposed to show you that you're not supposed to do that, because you'll face the consequences. That's what God does. He makes you face the consequences for your sins. Why do you think I'm trying to not look at porn?

Okay, you've got me there. The only explaination I can give is that it's God's son, so he's very important to God. We're not perfect, Jesus is. We sin, Jesus doesn't.

Oh, they knew it was wrong. They just didn't realize it until they were finished commiting the sin. Don't we call that...I don't know...Guilt?

What? O_0

Okay, then. I just read that section, and I get what you said. The rest of the world was punished because they didn't worship God. They rejected him. Only Noah and his family walked with him.

Well, they went to Heaven. God isn't going to send little children to hell. All children are sheltered in God's arms. Like when the Rapture happens, all of the children below the age of 12 (I think that's it...) will disappear along with the saved, regardless of religion. That's why the Rapture will be such a huge deal. No matter where you are, you'll be affected by the Rapture. That's the point of it. So the children in Moses's time were taken to Heaven. Sure, they died, but they actually did go to a better place.

Refer to the previous paragraph.

And again...As for the Europe thing, no. There were missionaries in every part of that world. That what the disciples did. That's what Paul did. They were sent out to save lives for God. Christianity was just an idea that the Catholic Church started from the letters of disciples, Paul, and Jude (who only gets one chapter. Lulz). That's how the Bible was started; bunches of letters. Well, that, and much of the Jewish history. But for the missionary part, the disciples (except for Judas Isracot, who killed himself.) drew lots for which part of the world (or what they knew of it.) that they should go and preach to. Paul later preached to all of Rome and Greece (Oh, wait, that's Europe.), along with many Middle Eastern countries, and even a few in Africa.

If you went to church, you'd have people who'd highlight that for you.

But they still knew they weren't supposed to eat the fruit! Do I have to type out the freaking verse for you and draw you pretty pictures? They were tricked, yes, but they still knew that God said to not eat the fruit. That's what Satan does! He sugarcoats sin so it looks pretty, but after you commit the sin, you feel ashamed. Hence, they're eyes were opened and they realized they were naked.

Ugh, okay...Here's the verses. Genesis 3:1-7 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, "Yea, hath God said, 'Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?'" And the woman said unto the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath siad, 'Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.'" And the serpent said unto the woman, "Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evel." And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes (!), and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

God said not to eat of it, because you'll die. Satan said you wouldn't surely die, meaning you wouldn't die right off. It was pleasant to Eve's eyes, so she took ate, and so did Adam, after she handed him some. Their eyes were opened and they knew right from wrong, because they realized they had just sinned against God.

Does this make any more sense, or am I going to have to go all Bapticostal on you?

It's Adam's fault because he still partook of the fruit when they were told not to.

Read New King James. It's the easiest to read.

Quote from: Stupid Fucking Slut on June 16, 2009, 09:44:57 AM
but you'll be teaching your kids that hitting their offspring is correct ;_____;

No. You're teaching your kids that you expect them to act a certain way and to follow your rules, and if they don't, they have to deal with the consequenses. As long as you don't abuse them, it's fine. All you have to do is hit their butts a few times. Leave their faces, shoulders, backs, legs, arms, stomachs...Anything but the butt, alone.

Your lack of quoting annoys me. Now i have to go and find the context of each statement. ugh.

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 16, 2009, 11:40:08 AM
Your lack of quoting annoys me. Now i have to go and find the context of each statement. ugh.

You'll live.

I'm not sure why you guys bother to type posts that take like, half an hour; neither of you is going to convince the other of anything.

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 10:48:42 AM
Ah, crap. I'm not going to bother quoting every little bit of this. I think you'll get it.

Okay, my bad. I misunderstood.

giggle;

QuoteYes, there is. It's called the Torah.

The first 13 books of the new testament...

QuoteThe what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

QuoteEh...I don't know where he got them.

Don't cite made up statistics.

QuoteIf you made a lifeform and it told you to "Fuck off, I'll live life my own way.", wouldn't you get angry and say that, "I created you, I know what's best for you." You know, kinda like a parent?

No.

QuoteExactly. It's always God's call.

Then who are you to say they didn't repent, and I don't think any amount of apologizing can make up for raping children.

QuoteChristianity has predestination. If you're talking about Jehovah's Witnesses *cough cough*, that's not Christianity. It's completely different. They don't believe in Hell, so that pretty much kills it.

Not all sects do and who says Jehovah's witnesses aren't Christians? They're classified as Christians, you're just going by what your church calls "Christian" and think every group must fit that description.

QuoteWell, maybe they are. I don't. know. If it does take good works, then I know that all this hard work I'm doing will certainly get me to Heaven. And if not, then I've got the salvation to back it up. I win either way!

No, you don't win either way because that only goes off the assumption that either sect is correct and ignores other religions or nonreligions.

QuoteThat's where missionaries come in. By now, pretty much every region of the world has been touched by Christianity.

Hinduism, Islam,  Dicksuckingism, Paganism, etc all have the same evidence as Christianity: none so why should they beleive a missionary?

QuoteWell, I need to know what you want me to look for, Mr. "I-used-to-be-a-Christian-but-God-pissed-my-off-so-I'm-gonna-throw-a-hissy-fit." I'll find it. (Just get it before Friday. I've got band camp.)

Something that doesn't exist can't piss me off.
Also go look at the quote I can't remember what it was.

QuoteGod is the Father, the Creator. Jesus is the Son, the Savior. The Holy Spirit is the...Spirit, the Messenger of God.

And they're all the same person.

QuoteI'm told that your child would mean more to you than your own life. Trust me, I've had that argument with plenty of parents. All agree that they'd rather die themselves then let thier sons or daughters even come to harm. And wouldn't that be death, even if it's not spiritual?

God is a deity though. A deity dying > a mortal dying.
No, because God never lost Jesus. He was there before his 'birth' and there after.

QuoteWell, then we'll use that. You'd really have to care for my life to give your son's liver, and life, in order to save mine. It's my fault (kinda) why I'm in that situation. But only you can get me out of it.

I wouldn't have shot you if I had cared.

QuoteI pretty much would. If I didn't love my mom, I wouldn't care what she'd say. Therefore, I'd break the rules just to make her angry, which would cause me to lose privledges and possibly even cause her to actually (Dare I say it?...) bend me over her knee and she spank me. (Hasn't happened in many, many years, but you never know....)

oh let me tell you. I hated bush so I broke all of his rules and killed people to make him angry

QuoteAnd the doodthing; is for what? Me being a good parent who wants to raise my kids out of the worldly belief that kids should be able to do what they want with no punishment? It only takes one swing.

Because corporal punishment is not an effective deterrent other than for immediate control. It also is damaging to the child.
http://www.apa.org/releases/spanking.html
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=2pcq3UmQyCYC&oi=fnd&pg=PA3&dq=%22Straus%22+%22Beating+the+devil+out+of+them:+Corporal+punishment+in+...%22+&ots=dMhwQjyWmN&sig=u3ToO1npykFyE3dHk3GAbjVrSEw#PPA5,M1
http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin5.htm
I also think that Jesus would be against such acts.

But go ahead, take your anger out on a kid and fuck him over because you "love him".

QuoteSince when has communication with words ever stopped someone from doing something stupid?

Uh plenty of times.
There is also civil disobedience which doesn't require violence.

QuoteIf my mom told me to not smoke pot, and I did it, and she told me not to do it again, I'd think, "Well, if that's really all I'm going to get for it, why not get high and tune the bitch out?" Telling me to not do something again would just breed rebellion.

You're an idiot. You're basically equating child raising into two categories

a.) Beat the shit out him.

b.)'Don't do that son"

Apparently grounding and other forum of punishment do not exist.

QuoteThat's really the only case is when it comes to salvation. Look at porn, your girlfriend will find out and she'll cry and not trust you.

uh, what not every girl does that

Quote(Spanking.) Smoke pot, you get caught, you spend a few nights in jail. (Spanking.)

wut it's a fine here and uh wouldn't that be equated to grounding and not spanking?

QuoteYou get drunk, drive, and kill a passenger in another care, you spend life in jail for vehicular manslaughter. (Spanking.)

Grounding and loss of computer user/phone/video games/etc.

QuoteYou reap what you sow. These punishments are supposed to show you that you're not supposed to do that, because you'll face the consequences. That's what God does. He makes you face the consequences for your sins.

Why can't god send me to my room

QuoteWhy do you think I'm trying to not look at porn?

Because you are addicted to it baddood;

QuoteOkay, you've got me there. The only explaination I can give is that it's God's son, so he's very important to God. We're not perfect, Jesus is. We sin, Jesus doesn't.

cool

QuoteOh, they knew it was wrong. They just didn't realize it until they were finished commiting the sin. Don't we call that...I don't know...Guilt?

i don't even know what you're tlaking about now since you started talking about porn earlier dammit quote posts.

QuoteWhat? O_0

you said moses built the ark. moses freed the jews.

QuoteOkay, then. I just read that section, and I get what you said. The rest of the world was punished because they didn't worship God. They rejected him. Only Noah and his family walked with him.

really i am confused this is what happens when you don't quote.

QuoteWell, they went to Heaven. God isn't going to send little children to hell. All children are sheltered in God's arms. Like when the Rapture happens, all of the children below the age of 12 (I think that's it...) will disappear along with the saved, regardless of religion. That's why the Rapture will be such a huge deal. No matter where you are, you'll be affected by the Rapture. That's the point of it. So the children in Moses's time were taken to Heaven. Sure, they died, but they actually did go to a better place.

So a 13 year old goes to Hell but a 12 year old doesn't even if they have the same lack of exposure or guilt in the eyes of God?

QuoteRefer to the previous paragraph.

reefer

QuoteAnd again...As for the Europe thing, no. There were missionaries in every part of that world. That what the disciples did. That's what Paul did. They were sent out to save lives for God. Christianity was just an idea that the Catholic Church started from the letters of disciples, Paul, and Jude (who only gets one chapter. Lulz). That's how the Bible was started; bunches of letters. Well, that, and much of the Jewish history. But for the missionary part, the disciples (except for Judas Isracot, who killed himself.) drew lots for which part of the world (or what they knew of it.) that they should go and preach to. Paul later preached to all of Rome and Greece (Oh, wait, that's Europe.), along with many Middle Eastern countries, and even a few in Africa.

Uh, I don't think there were any missionaries in south america from 32ad-1500ad.
but then again you believe the world is 6000 years old and it is impossible for natives to have been here. akudood; akudood;

QuoteIf you went to church, you'd have people who'd highlight that for you.

Isn't that their interpretation?
Nowhere does it say what is literal and what is metaphorical.

QuoteBut they still knew they weren't supposed to eat the fruit! Do I have to type out the freaking verse for you and draw you pretty pictures? They were tricked, yes, but they still knew that God said to not eat the fruit. That's what Satan does! He sugarcoats sin so it looks pretty, but after you commit the sin, you feel ashamed. Hence, they're eyes were opened and they realized they were naked.

Knowing they aren't supposed to eat the fruit is useless if they don't know the difference between right and wrong.

QuoteUgh, okay...Here's the verses. Genesis 3:1-7 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, "Yea, hath God said, 'Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?'" And the woman said unto the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath siad, 'Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.'" And the serpent said unto the woman, "Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evel." And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes (!), and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

She still didn't know it was wrong.

QuoteGod said not to eat of it, because you'll die. Satan said you wouldn't surely die, meaning you wouldn't die right off. It was pleasant to Eve's eyes, so she took ate, and so did Adam, after she handed him some. Their eyes were opened and they knew right from wrong, because they realized they had just sinned against God.

After the fact, maybe they said sorry ^___^

QuoteDoes this make any more sense, or am I going to have to go all Bapticostal on you?

No, reasoning works.

QuoteIt's Adam's fault because he still partook of the fruit when they were told not to.

He didn't know it was wrong.

QuoteRead New King James. It's the easiest to read.

really?
this whole time i've been reading it in hebrew

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 16, 2009, 11:46:39 AM
I'm not sure why you guys bother to type posts that take like, half an hour; neither of you is going to convince the other of anything.

Agreed...

How about this, JMV? I shut up about Christianity if you quite complaining about it? Truce?

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 12:30:37 PM
Agreed...

How about this, JMV? I shut up about Christianity if you quite complaining about it? Truce?

No, I want evidence for Christianity that isn't recursive.  akudood;

Basically this is what the code for religion is
def religion():
    if religion()==True:
        return True
religion()


Unfortunately running that code results in:

Quote
>>> religion()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  A few hundred lines of this
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in religion
RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded

cnotedood;

I'll just stop arguing with you since you've yet to try to provide evidence. At least YPR tries akudood;

edit or alternatively

def bibleIsTrue():
if godExists():
return True
def godExists():
if bibleIsTrue():
return True

QuoteTraceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
File "<stdin>", line 2, in godExists
File "<stdin>", line 2, in bibleIsTrue
File "<stdin>", line 2, in godExists
File "<stdin>", line 2, in bibleIsTrue
File "<stdin>", line 2, in godExists
File "<stdin>", line 2, in bibleIsTrue
File "<stdin>", line 2, in godExists
File "<stdin>", line 2, in bibleIsTrue
File "<stdin>", line 2, in godExists
File "<stdin>", line 2, in bibleIsTrue
File "<stdin>", line 2, in godExists
File "<stdin>", line 2, in bibleIsTrue

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 11:43:13 AM
You'll live.

...FOREVER IN GOD'S GRACE, THAT IS  akudood; akudood; akudood;

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 16, 2009, 11:46:39 AM
I'm not sure why you guys bother to type posts that take like, half an hour; neither of you is going to convince the other of anything.

Puu is hilarious, so why would you encourage JMV not to egg him on? baddood;

Quote from: RDX on June 16, 2009, 01:14:24 PM
Puu is hilarious, so why would you encourage JMV not to egg him on? baddood;

baddood;

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 11:01:42 AM
No. You're teaching your kids that you expect them to act a certain way and to follow your rules, and if they don't, they have to deal with the consequenses. As long as you don't abuse them, it's fine. All you have to do is hit their butts a few times. Leave their faces, shoulders, backs, legs, arms, stomachs...Anything but the butt, alone.

Why not become a role model and show them how to be good and explain your errs whenever you commit one. ;_;

Also explaining and going through things and blah blah blah distracting them from their misbehavior is a better alternative other than spanking. <3 BUT THEN AGAIN IT TOTALLY DEPENDS ON THE TEMPERAMENT AND RESILIENCE OF THE CHILD.

Also:  You're teaching your kids that you expect them to act a certain way and to follow your rules, and if they don't, they have to deal with the consequenses.

Sounds like you're teaching them with fear. ;_;

Quote from: Stupid Fucking Slut on June 16, 2009, 02:48:10 PM
Why not become a role model and show them how to be good and explain your errs whenever you commit one. ;_;

Also explaining and going through things and blah blah blah distracting them from their misbehavior is a better alternative other than spanking. <3 BUT THEN AGAIN IT TOTALLY DEPENDS ON THE TEMPERAMENT AND RESILIENCE OF THE CHILD.

Also:  You're teaching your kids that you expect them to act a certain way and to follow your rules, and if they don't, they have to deal with the consequenses.

Sounds like you're teaching them with fear. ;_;

That is the premise of Hell.

OBEY OR SUFFER akudood;

I've always thought about becoming Catholic.

Quote from: Zach on June 16, 2009, 06:01:57 PM
I've always thought about becoming Catholic.

do it baddood;

Quote from: RDX on June 16, 2009, 01:14:24 PM
Puu is hilarious, so why would you encourage JMV not to egg him on? baddood;

I have no idea where he gets these ideas.

Quote from: Stupid Fucking Slut on June 16, 2009, 02:48:10 PM
Why not become a role model and show them how to be good and explain your errs whenever you commit one. ;_;

Also explaining and going through things and blah blah blah distracting them from their misbehavior is a better alternative other than spanking. <3 BUT THEN AGAIN IT TOTALLY DEPENDS ON THE TEMPERAMENT AND RESILIENCE OF THE CHILD.

Also:  You're teaching your kids that you expect them to act a certain way and to follow your rules, and if they don't, they have to deal with the consequenses.

Sounds like you're teaching them with fear. ;_;

Well, that's not the intention. If they fear me (or, more like, they fear the paddle/belt/whatever...), I can't help that. I know that I'm being a good father by spanking them. Mom never held back on me, and I turned out quite decent.

Puu, you're an idiot if you seriously are going to hit your kids.  doodthing;

Quote from: Trav on June 16, 2009, 07:41:29 PM
Puu, you're an idiot if you seriously are going to hit your kids.  doodthing;

I'm not going to hit them; I'm going to spank them. There's a huge difference.

I won't even touch them if I'm angry.

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 07:42:57 PM
I'm not going to hit them; I'm going to spank them. There's a huge difference.

I won't even touch them if I'm angry.

You know what that'll teach them? They'll think that violence is ok to use on other kids because you do it to them

lawl its okay guys, hopefully his wife will instill some sense into him. 
also yeah, you shouldn't have to touch your kids to be a good father. you have to make them think for themselves what is wrong and right, not use a system of trial and error where they do something and if its wrong they get spanked.
shit, im sure time-out is more effective than spanking.
watch supernanny, puu, and you will learn.  hocuspocus;

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 07:39:05 PM
I have no idea where he gets these ideas.

satan.

i'm possessed

QuoteWell, that's not the intention. If they fear me (or, more like, they fear the paddle/belt/whatever...), I can't help that. I know that I'm being a good father by spanking them. Mom never held back on me, and I turned out quite decent.

Didn't you want to kill yourself?


and yes I did and I also was spanked.  akudood;

Or are you going to ignore the studies I linked to involving the psychological damage that spanking does? Bonus: the third link is run by a religious group.

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 07:42:57 PM
I'm not going to hit them; I'm going to spank them. There's a huge difference.

I won't even touch them if I'm angry.

You won't be angry that they disobeyed you? Why would you spank them then?

Okay, this thread needs to be locked. Any argument over religion cannot be called "intelligent"

Quote from: Hïro on June 16, 2009, 07:58:07 PM
Okay, this thread needs to be locked. Any argument over religion cannot be called "intelligent"

I agree.

We aren't going to change anyone's mind about anything.

Quote from: Trav on June 16, 2009, 07:43:46 PM
You know what that'll teach them? They'll think that violence is ok to use on other kids because you do it to them

akudood;

If puu has a heart he'll stop after the first child like my dad did.

and shut up you dumbasses why are your trying to impede comedy?

Quote from: Hïro on June 16, 2009, 07:58:07 PM
Okay, this thread needs to be locked. Any argument over religion cannot be called "intelligent"

a: what evidence do you have that god created everything
c: the bible
a: what evidence do you have that the bible is true:
c: god wrote it
a: what evidence do you have that god exists
c: the bible
...repeat ad nauseam...

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  There is no evidence ever supplied when I ask for it, yet they seem to fault me for not accepting recursion akudood;
I'm not going 'lol prove it' though they should probably try that too, but evidence would help and i've been presented with none other than a few fallacies which aren't evidence.

Of course a debate is going to not be "intelligent" when one party has no evidence, cited statistics, or otherwise valid "ammo" for a debate other than citing itself.

hey jmv the quran talks about science and plate tectonics and why salt water doesnt mix with fresh water and stuff

that kind of rules out the whole "if this is true then this is true because the first thing was true because it is proved by the second thing" because i have science on my side baddood;

so basically what im saying is i have ammo so put your gun down

Quote from: RDX on June 16, 2009, 09:55:10 PM
hey jmv the quran talks about science and plate tectonics and why salt water doesnt mix with fresh water and stuff

that kind of rules out the whole "if this is true then this is true because the first thing was true because it is proved by the second thing" because i have science on my side baddood;

so basically what im saying is i have ammo so put your gun down

uh the plat tectonics thing is an interpretation of the meaning and uh i can't find anything explaining why in the qur'an just that he states:

He has set free the two seas meeting together.  There is a barrier between them.  They do not transgress.  (Quran, 55:19-20)

He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter.  And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition. (Quran, 25:53)


how does knowing about estuaries prove allah's word akudood;

OH SHIT HE'S ARMED DO NOT PUT DOWN THE GUN

alright jmv i'll give you this one since you got me there and i dont feel like thinking

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 07:42:57 PM
I'm not going to hit them; I'm going to spank them. There's a huge difference.

I won't even touch them if I'm angry.

I'm not going to hit them; I'm going to spank them. There's a huge difference.


Towards the kid there isn't.

Quote from: Stupid Fucking Slut on June 17, 2009, 03:35:49 AM
I'm not going to hit them; I'm going to spank them. There's a huge difference.


Towards the kid there isn't.

just speaking from personal experience i can tell you that there's a difference between corrective spanking and angry hitting  baddood;

although i can't say i'm a fan of either

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 16, 2009, 07:52:33 PM
Didn't you want to kill yourself?

Yeah, but that wasn't from the spankings. That was from my dad's death. Completely different.

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 17, 2009, 07:06:20 AM
Yeah, but that wasn't from the spankings. That was from my dad's death. Completely different.

You don't think psychological damage played a role in wanting to kill yourself over a death?

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 16, 2009, 08:25:06 AM

Well, that would be Catholicism. You have to pay your way there. (Not exactly the most attractive, is it?) As far as I know, all of the Protestant branches pretty much the same.

Pay? Doing good deeds is paying? If that's what you mean, then yes, it's by far the most attractive. The idea that faith alone should save you is ridiculous.

Quote from: Zach on June 16, 2009, 06:01:57 PM
I've always thought about becoming Catholic.

Why? and are you currently a part of any religion?

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 17, 2009, 07:08:33 AM
You don't think psychological damage played a role in wanting to kill yourself over a death?

Dude, my dad's death was the psychological damage. Keep up. Getting spankings was nothing. Sure, they hurt like crap, but the pain went away after a few seconds. Depression hurt me for quite a few years. I only got out of it in the 10th grade.

Quote from: YPR on June 17, 2009, 08:58:57 AM
Pay? Doing good deeds is paying? If that's what you mean, then yes, it's by far the most attractive. The idea that faith alone should save you is ridiculous.

No. You have to pay a priest to pray for you so you can repent for your sins. That's why they hold confessionals, so you can tell the priest what's bothering you, you pay him, and then he prays to God to tell him to wash you of your sins. Then there's the good deeds thing, because if you do good deeds, you're less likely to sin. Think about it. If I'm helping old ladies across the street, I'm not looking at porn, am I? (Wow, that was almost deep... bassir;)

It's kinda what we do as Protestants, but we don't pay the pastor to pray for us. We pay him to teach, and we pray on our own. Yet (atleast for Baptists), we believe that good works don't amount to a dang thing unless you've accepted Jesus as your Savior. So, after that, good works build up your treasures in Heaven. Otherwise, they're just a one-way ticket to hell.

Sad, huh?

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 17, 2009, 10:00:15 AM
Dude, my dad's death was the psychological damage. Keep up. Getting spankings was nothing. Sure, they hurt like crap, but the pain went away after a few seconds. Depression hurt me for quite a few years. I only got out of it in the 10th grade.

Where is your PHD in psychology that allows you to determine that there was no psychological damage caused by spankings that contributed to your level of depression after your father's death.

QuoteNo. You have to pay a priest to pray for you so you can repent for your sins. That's why they hold confessionals, so you can tell the priest what's bothering you, you pay him, and then he prays to God to tell him to wash you of your sins. Then there's the good deeds thing, because if you do good deeds, you're less likely to sin. Think about it. If I'm helping old ladies across the street, I'm not looking at porn, am I? (Wow, that was almost deep... bassir;)

...Please stop talking...
Where the hell did you hear that?  Uh there was a time a few hundred years ago where the church sold indulgences but that isn't related to what you said and they don't do that now.


if you're worshipping God at church or church camp you're not helping old ladies across the street are you? bassir;

Quote
It's kinda what we do as Protestants, but we don't pay the pastor to pray for us. We pay him to teach, and we pray on our own. Yet (atleast for Baptists), we believe that good works don't amount to a dang thing unless you've accepted Jesus as your Savior. So, after that, good works build up your treasures in Heaven. Otherwise, they're just a one-way ticket to hell.

Catholic priests don't teach?

QuoteSad, huh?

Yeah, your complete misunderstanding of those 'not true christians' is sad.

Uhm, I'd just like to say I've been a Catholic my whole life, was baptized as a baby, and that I've never paid a damn cent to a priest.  akudood;

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 17, 2009, 10:29:56 AM
Uhm, I'd just like to say I've been a Catholic my whole life, was baptized as a baby, and that I've never paid a damn cent to a priest.  akudood;

I heard catholics charge to use the bathroom.  baddood;

one time, i drove by a catholic church and they charged me five bucks  akudood;

also the pope is the anti-christ cnotedood;

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 17, 2009, 10:37:39 AM
I heard catholics charge to use the bathroom.  baddood;

And I heard atheists poop on said bathroom floors.  baddood;

Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on June 17, 2009, 10:43:40 AM
And I heard atheists poop on said bathroom floors.  baddood;

atheists don't poop doodthing;

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 17, 2009, 10:50:17 AM
atheists don't poop doodthing;

Instead they spew anti-religious bullshit!  bassir;

...I'm one to talk...

Quote from: Pqqu on June 17, 2009, 12:23:34 PM
Instead they spew anti-religious bullshit!  bassir;

...I'm one to talk...

I spew anti-religious facts. wariodood;

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 17, 2009, 10:11:42 AM
Where is your PHD in psychology that allows you to determine that there was no psychological damage caused by spankings that contributed to your level of depression after your father's death.

Because if there was, wouldn't I know about it? Wouldn't I fear spankings? It doesn't take a doctor to figure that one out. Please, dude, I'm the one who went through the death, not you. I think I know what my problem was.

Quote...Please stop talking...

Why? I thought the other Boyagers were getting enjoyment out of this?

QuoteWhere the hell did you hear that?  Uh there was a time a few hundred years ago where the church sold indulgences but that isn't related to what you said and they don't do that now.

Hmm, really? Well, why don't you ask Det? I bet she knows better than you or I.

Quoteif you're worshipping God at church or church camp you're not helping old ladies across the street are you?

No. I'm busy picking up trash, playing with little kids, and playing music for people.

What now?

QuoteCatholic priests don't teach?

Did I say that? I said that we only pay OUR preachers to teach. We don't pay them to pray for us. We don't have to go to them for confessionals. I said nothing about Catholic priests not teaching. They probably do like our pastors.

Geez, you really are an atheist. It's so apparent, since you can find something that I didn't even say and bring it up.

QuoteYeah, your complete misunderstanding of those 'not true christians' is sad.

Really, now?...Okay. Then tell me what a "real" Christian is, JMV?

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 17, 2009, 12:25:35 PM
I spew anti-religious facts. wariodood;

In your case, there's a difference?

anti-catholic christians are funny  akudood;

Quote from: guff on June 17, 2009, 01:38:51 PM
anti-catholic christians are funny  akudood;

I'm not anti-catholic. I'm just Protestant.

And it's a Baptist thing.

Quote from: guff on June 17, 2009, 01:38:51 PM
anti-catholic christians are funny  akudood;

I know a lot of people who view Catholics as teachers of false doctrine, but I'm not going to get into that.

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 17, 2009, 01:35:22 PM
Because if there was, wouldn't I know about it? Wouldn't I fear spankings? It doesn't take a doctor to figure that one out. Please, dude, I'm the one who went through the death, not you. I think I know what my problem was.

No, you might not have attributed the psychological damage, in part, to spanking. You don't fear spankings? What is the threat of spanking for then? Psychology isn't that simple.
Can you be certain that it had no effect on you? thinking it didn't isn't the same as it isn't.

QuoteWhy? I thought the other Boyagers were getting enjoyment out of this?

Not when you're now just completely pulling stuff out of your ass.

QuoteHmm, really? Well, why don't you ask Det? I bet she knows better than you or I.

Uh, it's pretty much common knowledge...

QuoteNo. I'm busy picking up trash, playing with little kids, and playing music for people.

You need to go to church for that?

QuoteWhat now?

You could have picked up a can of soda in the time you typed that.

QuoteDid I say that? I said that we only pay OUR preachers to teach. We don't pay them to pray for us. We don't have to go to them for confessionals. I said nothing about Catholic priests not teaching. They probably do like our pastors.

Because confessionals are bad things? Privately admitting what you've done and getting it off your chest is bad?

QuoteGeez, you really are an atheist. It's so apparent, since you can find something that I didn't even say and bring it up.

Yeah, I mean I should totally make up facts about religion.
I hear protestants pay their preachers to dress in drag. This is a fact I've learned by never attending a protestant church.

QuoteReally, now?...Okay. Then tell me what a "real" Christian is, JMV?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Judge not lest ye be judged

You seem to be doing a lot of judging. That doesn't seem to be a "true christian" to me. In case you missed it 'Sad, huh?" was the part I was referring to.

QuoteIn your case, there's a difference?

uh yes...
Just because God nor Jesus exist doesn't mean Christians and their scripture don't.

QuoteLet he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Judge not lest ye be judged

Most everyone that calls themselves a Christian doesn't follow what is written in the Bible. The Sermon on the Mount is pretty much Jesus' manifesto, but no one really follows what it says, myself included.

Quote from: Zach on June 17, 2009, 01:58:28 PM
Most everyone that calls themselves a Christian doesn't follow what is written in the Bible. The Sermon on the Mount is pretty much Jesus' manifesto, but no one really follows what it says, myself included.

You don't follow what Jesus says?

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 17, 2009, 02:04:08 PM
You don't follow what Jesus says?

I'll admit to you that I'm probably not saved, but I don't pretend that I am, either. I understand a lot of Christian theology, though, and I'm moving towards fully embracing Christ.

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 17, 2009, 01:48:29 PM
Uh, it's pretty much common knowledge...

srs. the history of christianity you learn in classes such as world history is primarily that of the roman catholic church.  doodhuh;

wow.

hoo boy.

I was going to reply to about a hundred stupid things I found in this thread, but then I decided that it wasn't worth it and would just be a waste of time.

Just thought I'd let you all know. ^___^

Quote from: Slim on June 17, 2009, 10:41:21 PM
I was going to reply to about a hundred stupid things I found in this thread, but then I decided that it wasn't worth it and would just be a waste of time.

Just thought I'd let you all know. ^___^

hey me too we should be friends ^___^

I made cookies so that all the arguers can have refreshment while they argue

I am helpful and I forward discussion!  bassir;

Quote from: Veal on June 17, 2009, 10:42:04 PM
hey me too we should be friends ^___^

i've been waiting a long time for you to say that giggle;

to be honest i'd like to see a debate between veal and jmv over religion. and me vs jmv on a day where i actually care enough to cite my sources and use my head.

perhaps such debates could be actually provocative and jmv could actually be beaten. i've never lost a full out religion debate.

Quote from: RDX on June 17, 2009, 11:10:23 PM
to be honest i'd like to see a debate between veal and jmv over religion. and me vs jmv on a day where i actually care enough to cite my sources and use my head.

uh all he really does is post a flurry of glib one-liners. i usually get bored about halfway through his posts and just skip along to the next one, to be honest.

not to take away from your dream of felling the mighty warrior JMV THE IMPREGNABLE in battle or anything.

Quotei've never lost a full out religion debate.

i've never lost a court case where i got to be both a litigant and the judge. bassir;

sometimes i dont know why i make certain posts

in fact, i usually dont know why i make the majority of my posts. but i guess it would still be interesting.

Quote from: Slim on June 18, 2009, 01:20:33 AM
uh all he really does is post a flurry of glib one-liners. i usually get bored about halfway through his posts and just skip along to the next one, to be honest.

not to take away from your dream of felling the mighty warrior JMV THE IMPREGNABLE in battle or anything.
i've never lost a court case where i got to be both a litigant and the judge. bassir;

So, in other words, JMV really doesn't know anything? He just finds someway to tick people of?

Ah, that makes me feel better. bassir;

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 17, 2009, 10:00:15 AM
No. You have to pay a priest to pray for you so you can repent for your sins. That's why they hold confessionals, so you can tell the priest what's bothering you, you pay him, and then he prays to God to tell him to wash you of your sins.

... no... not at all. Reconciliation is a free sacrament. Catholics do not have to pay priests in any manner or for any service.

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 17, 2009, 10:00:15 AM
Then there's the good deeds thing, because if you do good deeds, you're less likely to sin. Think about it. If I'm helping old ladies across the street, I'm not looking at porn, am I? (Wow, that was almost deep... bassir;)

According to you, looking at porn doesn't really matter because you have faith in God and Jesus anyway so why would viewing lewd material make you any less likely to get into heaven?

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 17, 2009, 10:00:15 AM
It's kinda what we do as Protestants, but we don't pay the pastor to pray for us. We pay him to teach, and we pray on our own. Yet (atleast for Baptists), we believe that good works don't amount to a dang thing unless you've accepted Jesus as your Savior. So, after that, good works build up your treasures in Heaven. Otherwise, they're just a one-way ticket to hell.

Again, that's just stupid. Actions should be more valuable than words. Do you believe in predestination too?

Quote... no... not at all. Reconciliation is a free sacrament. Catholics do not have to pay priests in any manner or for any service.

Yeah, I was pretty sure that confession is not a monetary-driven service.

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 18, 2009, 06:38:12 AM
So, in other words, JMV really doesn't know anything? He just finds someway to tick people of?

Ah, that makes me feel better. bassir;

Uh, the fact that you've managed to piss off other Christians, seemingly even worse than I've ever managed to seems to show otherwise.

JMV: Pisses them off by claiming their god doesn't exist, their messiah doesn't exist, and their holy book is a load of bullshit with citations for this claim
Puu: Pisses them off by completely making something up about their religion while pretending to claim the moral/spiritual superiority of your own

What it appears like to me, and probably 90% of the other members, is that I know more about the history of your religion, its roots, its teachings, its contradictions, and its interpretations as a whole, while you close your mind to all other teachings except those taught in your specific church and fall back on fallacies to defend them

• You've yet to provide a supposed method to differentiate between literal and metaphorical passages in the Bible. Just claiming it doesn't work.  What's the criteria for such a claim


• You've yet to even attempt to provide any evidence supporting the claims made by the religions you follow: just anecdotal statements, passages which you've still not shown the criteria for being literal/metaphorical, logical fallacies, and bringing up that I'm an atheist.


• When I make a claim that may not be common knowledge I generally provide 1-5 sources for it(e.g. psychological effects of corporal punishment) which you seem to ignore and continue making an argument against.  Your religion should be about faith, not ignoring cited facts of reality.


• You cling to a millennia old explanation for the unknown, moral code, law book, book of stories, and such written by nomads to provide explanations for things they don't know, motivate the people in their tribes(do this for the tribe and you will be rewarded for eternity), unite the people in the tribe, and keep order in the tribe. While those might seem beneficial, they also cause hatred between those outside the tribe, demean humanity as a whole, and no longer are relevant considering how we've built large cities and governments and don't need the Bible for that purpose.  Your insinuations that atheists are somehow morally inferior, selfish, etc. is just silly. What motivation does an atheist have for starting a charity, helping those in need,  and whatnot?  None, but they still do it.  That is much more honorable than doing it to please a deity, spread the religion, and/or to secure the reward of eternal life. One does not require religion to lead a "good life" only the will to do so. One doesn't require religion to notice the beautiful things in nature or space.

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 18, 2009, 06:38:12 AM
So, in other words, JMV really doesn't know anything? He just finds someway to tick people of?

Ah, that makes me feel better. bassir;

No, you don't really know anything either.

OH HOW THE TABLES HAVE TURNED  akudood;

Quote from: guff on June 18, 2009, 08:47:36 AM
OH HOW THE TABLES HAVE TURNED  akudood;

Actually it's been this way for 8 pages, looks like.

Thread is now about undermining the discussion going on in the thread.

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 18, 2009, 06:38:12 AM
So, in other words, JMV really doesn't know anything? He just finds someway to tick people of?

Ah, that makes me feel better. bassir;

not quite what i meant, but okay, you can go with that, i guess.
and jmv, i liked that post better because of the bullet points. happydood;

ok now get back to arguing my peons

Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on June 18, 2009, 07:37:56 AM
Uh, the fact that you've managed to piss off other Christians, seemingly even worse than I've ever managed to seems to show otherwise.

JMV: Pisses them off by claiming their god doesn't exist, their messiah doesn't exist, and their holy book is a load of bullshit with citations for this claim
Puu: Pisses them off by completely making something up about their religion while pretending to claim the moral/spiritual superiority of your own.

...All right. Well, then I guess I'll just have to work harder, then.

QuoteWhat it appears like to me, and probably 90% of the other members, is that I know more about the history of your religion, its roots, its teachings, its contradictions, and its interpretations as a whole, while you close your mind to all other teachings except those taught in your specific church and fall back on fallacies to defend them.

The reason I use only the teachings I'm taught is because that's all I know. That's 17 years of the same thing being told to me over and over. So, whenever something's presented to me, I have only one point of view. So, is the Baptist view always good enough? Not all the time. Like I said, I can only give you one side of the Christian arguement. But, oh well, I'm never going to stop arguing against you just because I'm at the disadvantage. I'll learn more, whether I find someone who's willing to teach me, or I have to force someone to tell me.

Quote

• You've yet to provide a supposed method to differentiate between literal and metaphorical passages in the Bible. Just claiming it doesn't work.  What's the criteria for such a claim

Of course I can't provide you with a method. I'm not a preacher. I'm a seventeen-year-old from Arkansas that's fired up on Jesus. The only thing I can say is, "If it looks like symbolism, it probably is. If it doesn't, it probably isn't." That's pretty much the basis that I can give you. Like I said, you should ask someone who has actually made religion their job. All I can do is read a particular passage to you and tell you what I think about it. The Bible is different to everyone. People find the answers they need on their own. One verse to me might mean something different to, say, Zach. Or to even Det. That's because the Bible had a different way of answering each of our individual questions.

Quote

• You've yet to even attempt to provide any evidence supporting the claims made by the religions you follow: just anecdotal statements, passages which you've still not shown the criteria for being literal/metaphorical, logical fallacies, and bringing up that I'm an atheist.

That's because there is no evidence, James. I've told you, I believe through faith, not what some person has shown me. The biggest reason I believe is because I felt that God helped me come out of my depression. Your argument would be something like, "How can you be sure that it was God? Couldn't it have been your own strength and will that brought you out? Maybe you just eventually got tired of feeling depressed. Etc..." What would my argument be to that? "Well, I feel like God pulled me out of it." Again, "How can you be sure?" "I feel like God was the reason." It's the same freakin' argument over and over. There's no proof because faith doesn't run of proof. Webster's definition(s) of faith are:

1) A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
2) Complete confidence in a person or plan, etc.
3) Institution to express belief in a divine power.
4) Loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person.

Does that make any more sense to you? You have your proof (to an extent). I have my faith. That's why it's a constant battle between religion and science, because science demands proof, and religion can't supply it. Christianity demands faith, and science relies too much on proof.

Quote

• When I make a claim that may not be common knowledge I generally provide 1-5 sources for it(e.g. psychological effects of corporal punishment) which you seem to ignore and continue making an argument against.  Your religion should be about faith, not ignoring cited facts of reality.

Because, again, I use faith for my reasoning, JMV. I have never suffered from psychological effects other than my father dying. Corporal punishment has done nothing to my life except make it uncomfortable for a couple seconds. Heck, whenever I go to the office and I have a choice between corporal punishment and detention, I'm all for the licks! They're quicker, they go away faster, and I have the rest of my day to do whatever I want. Look, JMV, three facts! And again, faith and facts (oh, boy...) don't fit. Faith = Believing without seeing. Facts = Has been tested and proven many times over. Do you get the picture? You can't see God, you can't test God, so in my book, he can't be proven or disproven. But to you, since you can't see him or test him, it means that he doesn't exist. So, again, faith vs. logic. All I can do is give you scriptures out of a book that you don't even believe is factual, and tell you how I feel about it.

Quote

• You cling to a millennia old explanation for the unknown, moral code, law book, book of stories, and such written by nomads to provide explanations for things they don't know, motivate the people in their tribes(do this for the tribe and you will be rewarded for eternity), unite the people in the tribe, and keep order in the tribe. While those might seem beneficial, they also cause hatred between those outside the tribe, demean humanity as a whole, and no longer are relevant considering how we've built large cities and governments and don't need the Bible for that purpose.  Your insinuations that atheists are somehow morally inferior, selfish, etc. is just silly. What motivation does an atheist have for starting a charity, helping those in need,  and whatnot?  None, but they still do it.  That is much more honorable than doing it to please a deity, spread the religion, and/or to secure the reward of eternal life. One does not require religion to lead a "good life" only the will to do so. One doesn't require religion to notice the beautiful things in nature or space.

Why do I cling to it? Because, to me, it's truth. The Bible will never be obsolete to me. Besides, they had cities then, too. Maybe not as large as ours, but they were still cities. Jesus was born in a very large city. Also, it's not just a "Do this for the tribe" thing. It was something you did to praise God. The Baptist view (Heh, I never thought I'd say that...) is that once you have salvation, you will be rewarded forever (Heaven). But by doing good works, you increase your treasures that are in Heaven. By helping people with their problems, quitting addictions that you originally had, being an overall good parent, giving charity, and many other things were all ways of helping people. God loves that. He enjoys when we help our fellow man, because it's showing love. Sure, you don't have to be a Christian, or even religious, to be a good person. I have several friends that are atheist that are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. But being nice means so much more for me, and I'm going to assume Christians in general, because, not only am I helping this person, but I'm serving God while I do it. So to you, that's "not as honorable". Well, when I do it for God, I'm not doing it for myself. I'm pleasing my King. And not only that, but it makes the person I'm being kind to see the love for my Christ work through me.

Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on June 19, 2009, 08:23:46 AM
...All right. Well, then I guess I'll just have to work harder, then.

The reason I use only the teachings I'm taught is because that's all I know. That's 17 years of the same thing being told to me over and over. So, whenever something's presented to me, I have only one point of view. So, is the Baptist view always good enough? Not all the time. Like I said, I can only give you one side of the Christian arguement. But, oh well, I'm never going to stop arguing against you just because I'm at the disadvantage. I'll learn more, whether I find someone who's willing to teach me, or I have to force someone to tell me.

You only hurt your argument by jumping into a debate with incorrect notions, incomplete understanding, and lack of citations.

A true quest for knowledge isn't trying to learn more about your religion and how to prove it: that results in a bias. Learning about the other view points, their arguments, their proofs, is an actual attempt at learning.

Dropping the assumption that your beliefs alone are right, and actually researching other religions,non religions, philosophies, and the likes are how you learn.  Not reinforcing indoctrinated beliefs while blocking out those which oppose it.

QuoteOf course I can't provide you with a method. I'm not a preacher. I'm a seventeen-year-old from Arkansas that's fired up on Jesus.

You're fired up on something you take the word of another for. You're fired up on a lack of evidence, proof, and everything because it sounds nice.

QuoteThe only thing I can say is, "If it looks like symbolism, it probably is. If it doesn't, it probably isn't." That's pretty much the basis that I can give you.

That methodology is subject to extreme levels of subjectivity.  I'm pretty sure Det and YPR will find things to be metaphorical that you find to be literal. Zach or Alan might find something else metaphorical or literal. It's subjective, not a thing that can be replicated.

QuoteLike I said, you should ask someone who has actually made religion their job. All I can do is read a particular passage to you and tell you what I think about it. The Bible is different to everyone.

Hey I just typed out an entire paragraph for you to argue against your own point...

QuotePeople find the answers they need on their own

Observational bias.

QuoteOne verse to me might mean something different to, say, Zach. Or to even Det. That's because the Bible had a different way of answering each of our individual questions.

uh wouldn't that mean it's all metaphorical?

QuoteThat's because there is no evidence, James. I've told you, I believe through faith, not what some person has shown me.

There is a difference between faith and ignorance.  The latter is rejecting facts of reality to strengthen beliefs. The former is looking at those facts, accepting them, and still believing.

QuoteThe biggest reason I believe is because I felt that God helped me come out of my depression. Your argument would be something like, "How can you be sure that it was God? Couldn't it have been your own strength and will that brought you out? Maybe you just eventually got tired of feeling depressed. Etc..." What would my argument be to that? "Well, I feel like God pulled me out of it." Again, "How can you be sure?" "I feel like God was the reason." It's the same freakin' argument over and over. There's no proof because faith doesn't run of proof. Webster's definition(s) of faith are:

1) A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
2) Complete confidence in a person or plan, etc.
3) Institution to express belief in a divine power.
4) Loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person.

Actually my argument would be like "So God helped you specifically but not your father?" and yours would be "he had different plans for him" and I would be all like " =|".

Faith might not require proof, but it doesn't require rejecting truth.

QuoteDoes that make any more sense to you? You have your proof (to an extent). I have my faith. That's why it's a constant battle between religion and science, because science demands proof, and religion can't supply it. Christianity demands faith,

The constant battle between religion and science is because science weakens the control of religion. It raises skepticism.  The Catholic church spent over 1500 years fighting science to keep its control.  In the last 100 years so they've realized that faith in your God and reasoning by science are not mutually exclusive.

The problem is people believing what you just said: that there is a "constant battle between religion and science" when there need not be.

Quoteand science relies too much on proof.

This is probably the most fucking retarded thing I've ever read.

QuoteBecause, again, I use faith for my reasoning, JMV.

There's your problem. Use reason for your reasoning.

QuoteI have never suffered from psychological effects other than my father dying.

lol. Everything has a psychological effect on a person, even if small.

QuoteCorporal punishment has done nothing to my life except make it uncomfortable for a couple seconds. Heck, whenever I go to the office and I have a choice between corporal punishment and detention, I'm all for the licks!

...Your school smacks you?

QuoteThey're quicker, they go away faster, and I have the rest of my day to do whatever I want.

Psychological damage is neither immediate nor obvious.

QuoteLook, JMV, three facts!

Where?

QuoteAnd again, faith and facts (oh, boy...) don't fit. Faith = Believing without seeing. Facts = Has been tested and proven many times over. Do you get the picture?

Apparently you don't get the picture.

Faith != rejecting facts.

QuoteYou can't see God, you can't test God, so in my book, he can't be proven or disproven.

Nothing can be disproven. Just because you can't see him doesn't mean you can't prove him. It's the lack of proof that means you can't prove him.

QuoteBut to you, since you can't see him or test him, it means that he doesn't exist

Wrong.

QuoteSo, again, faith vs. logic

You need to drop that mentality.

QuoteAll I can do is give you scriptures out of a book that you don't even believe is factual, and tell you how I feel about it.

And what makes that book more believable than the other hundreds of books?

QuoteWhy do I cling to it? Because, to me, it's truth. The Bible will never be obsolete to me. Besides, they had cities then, too. Maybe not as large as ours, but they were still cities.

The cities came later and were never permanent. Nomadic settlements would build cities, stay for a few decades, and move again. 

QuoteJesus was born in a very large city.

jesus was a city boy

QuoteAlso, it's not just a "Do this for the tribe" thing.

and now for the argument

QuoteIt was something you did to praise God. The Baptist view (Heh, I never thought I'd say that...) is that once you have salvation, you will be rewarded forever (Heaven). But by doing good works, you increase your treasures that are in Heaven. By helping people with their problems, quitting addictions that you originally had, being an overall good parent, giving charity, and many other things were all ways of helping people. God loves that. He enjoys when we help our fellow man, because it's showing love. Sure, you don't have to be a Christian, or even religious, to be a good person. I have several friends that are atheist that are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. But being nice means so much more for me, and I'm going to assume Christians in general, because, not only am I helping this person, but I'm serving God while I do it. So to you, that's "not as honorable". Well, when I do it for God, I'm not doing it for myself. I'm pleasing my King. And not only that, but it makes the person I'm being kind to see the love for my Christ work through me.

Well an atheist does it for humanity. God just damns humanity.

I love you, JMV.

Quote from: Jet Black Wii on June 22, 2009, 11:33:37 PM
I love you, JMV.

What you're feeling is lust, not love.

Because I'm gay for Jesus.
Creator of all good.
A charitable carpenter,
That's why he's givin me wood.

Cause I'm gay for Jesus.
Let the people rejoice.
But it's not about lust, I don't want to nail him.
That was a poor word choice.

Quote from: Slim on June 22, 2009, 11:41:00 PM
What you're feeling is lust, not love.

No, that's what I'm feeling for you, Slim. <3

Quote from: Kevin on June 23, 2009, 06:44:29 AM
Because I'm gay for Jesus.
Creator of all good.
A charitable carpenter,
That's why he's givin me wood.

Cause I'm gay for Jesus.
Let the people rejoice.
But it's not about lust, I don't want to nail him.
That was a poor word choice.

lol