What is your idea on the FDA bing corrupt?
There is a book I am reading, called Natural Cures 'They' Don't Want You to Know About and it is written by a guy who has been there, heard and seen everything, and claims the FDA is run by corrupt money-hungry people.
I personally believe it all. And I never really take drugs, never have to. And I am thankful. My parents have all these pills lined up every day, I hate it. I never want to have to put thatr poison in my body.
The book basically explains how the FDA only allows a drug to be called a drug if they have made it, and how their drugs have side effects that will be major down the road, causing people to need to take more drugs, and more drugs, and so on.
So, what are your views?
Oh yeah, that can be very annoying and a big waste of money (on the long run), however, Penicillin and other drugs(?) aren't meant to have side-affects(sp?).
Universal healthcare ftw
Quote from: Ripster on August 15, 2007, 06:25:59 AM
There is a book I am reading, called Natural Cures 'They' Don't Want You to Know About...
HAHAHAHAHA OH MY FUCKING GOD GUFFAW GUFFAW HAHAHAHAHAHA
You're an idiot. Just read up on the author if you want to know why.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 15, 2007, 12:42:09 PM
HAHAHAHAHA OH MY FUCKING GOD GUFFAW GUFFAW HAHAHAHAHAHA
You're an idiot. Just read up on the author if you want to know why.
Trudeau grew up in Lynn, Massachusetts, USA. He is the adopted son of Robert and Mary Trudeau. He attended St. Mary's High School, where he was voted "Most Likely to Succeed" by the class of 1981.[3][4]
OH FUCK. I'm from Lynn. Dat dude is gangsta
Seriously though, here is a copypase from Wikipedia
1990: Larceny and prison
In 1990, Trudeau posed as a doctor in order to deposit $80,000 in false checks, and in 1991 he pled guilty to larceny after he had provided false information to obtain credit cards which he used for his own purposes. He spent two years in prison because of this conviction (Choi, 2005). In Natural Cures, Trudeau claims that he has learned from his experience, and that he is now motivated to help people rather than merely to make money for himself.
[edit]
1996: SEC
Trudeau rebounded, making a large sum of money working for Nutrition For Life,[6] a multi-level marketing program. However, in 1996, his recruitment practices were cited by the states of Illinois and Michigan, as well as the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Michigan forbade him from operating in the state.
[edit]
1998: FTC fine
In 1998, Trudeau was fined $500,000 to be used for consumer redress by the FTC, relating to six infomercials he had produced and in which the FTC determined he had made false or misleading claims. Trudeau says that this is evidence for his belief that the FTC is in partnership with the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and pharmaceutical industries in denying people the right to freedom of health care for the sake of profit at the expense of U.S. citizens.
[edit]
2004: Contempt of court
In June 2003, the FTC filed a complaint in the Northern District of Illinois against Trudeau and some of his companies (Shop America (USA), LLC, Shop America Marketing Group, LLC, and Trustar Global Media, Limited), alleging that disease-related claims for Coral Calcium Supreme were false and unsubstantiated. In July 2003, Trudeau entered into a stipulated preliminary injunction that prohibited him from continuing to make the challenged claims for Coral Calcium Supreme and Biotape.
In the summer of 2004, the court found Trudeau in contempt of court for violating the preliminary injunction, because he had sent out a direct mail piece and produced an infomercial making prohibited claims. The court ordered Trudeau to cease all marketing for coral calcium products.
In September 2004, Trudeau agreed to pay $2 million ($500,000 in cash plus transfer of residential property located in Ojai, California, and a luxury vehicle) to settle charges that he falsely claimed that a coral calcium product can cure cancer and other serious diseases and that a purported analgesic called Biotape can permanently cure or relieve severe pain.[7][8]
[edit]
2005: Trudeau v. FTC
On February 28, 2005, Trudeau filed a complaint against the FTC in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking declaratory and injunctive relief. Trudeau also filed a motion for preliminary injunction, which the court denied.
The complaint charged that the FTC had retaliated against him for his criticism of the agency by issuing a press release that falsely characterized and intentionally and deliberately misrepresented the 2004 Final Order. That conduct, Trudeau asserted, exceeded the FTC’s authority under 15 U.S.C. § 46(f) and violated the First Amendment. The Federal Trade Commission responded with a motion to dismiss the complaint for lack of subject-matter jurisdiction under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(1), and for failure to state a claim for which relief can be granted under Rule 12(b)(6).
The district court granted the FTC’s motion to dismiss. First, the court concluded that it lacked subject-matter jurisdiction because the press release was not “a ‘final agency action’” under “section 704 of the [Administrative Procedure Act]”, 5 U.S.C. § 704. Second, the court held, “in the alternative, that Trudeau’s claims failed to state a viable cause of action as a matter of law.”
Trudeau later filed an appeal which resulted in the unsuccessful attempt to reverse the previous court's ruling.[9]
Not to mention that the book references the reader to his web site on several occasions, which one has to pay for.
BUT HE'S FOR THE CONSUMER BELIEVE IN HIM
HE'S NOT JUST TRYING TO RIP-OFF THE GULLIBLE AND DOWNTRODDEN
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 15, 2007, 12:42:09 PM
HAHAHAHAHA OH MY FUCKING GOD GUFFAW GUFFAW HAHAHAHAHAHA
You're an idiot. Just read up on the author if you want to know why.
A person that just shoves medicine down their throat thrice a day isn't any wiser.
Quote from: Lawlz on August 15, 2007, 01:37:36 PM
A person that just shoves medicine down their throat thrice a day isn't any wiser.
Really? They're on the same level as a con-artist with no medical knowledge knowledge whatsoever (this makes him more effective, as the Agents have not yet gotten to him) playing on the fears and doubts of those in poor health?
Do you also believe in the Reptilians? psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 15, 2007, 01:54:52 PM
Really? They're on the same level as a con-artist with no medical knowledge knowledge whatsoever (this makes him more effective, as the Agents have not yet gotten to him) playing on the fears and doubts of those in poor health?
Do you also believe in the Reptilians? psyduck;
Why yes, yes I do.
But of course, the risk of heart attack, stroke, and death with an everyday medication is much better than a monthly headache.
Quote from: Lawlz on August 15, 2007, 03:11:23 PM
But of course, the risk of heart attack, stroke, and death with an everyday medication is much better than a monthly headache.
Which prescription medicines treat monthly headaches? And which of those can present those side-effects?
What side-effects have you experienced?
ps the risk of heart attack is ever-present
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 15, 2007, 04:56:58 PM
Which prescription medicines treat monthly headaches? And which of those can present those side-effects?
What side-effects have you experienced?
ps the risk of heart attack is ever-present
fine arthritis
ps most people are pussies
Quote from: Lawlz on August 15, 2007, 04:58:17 PM
fine arthritis
ps most people are pussies
Stop making unsupported claims. Give actual examples.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 15, 2007, 05:02:36 PM
Stop making unsupported claims. Give actual examples.
okay (http://www.celebrex-lawyers.us/) cool (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63157-2004Sep30.html)
Quote from: Lawlz on August 15, 2007, 05:11:12 PM
okay (http://www.celebrex-lawyers.us/) cool (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63157-2004Sep30.html)
Okay, cool. 2 million people took Vioxx. How many died as a result of that?
let's ban cars too they kill and injure even more people
Natural Cures, oh god. This man was forbidden from selling any product by the courts after scamming millions. However, a book apparently doesn't count as a "product", and is therefore exempt, allowing him to escape untouched with more of people's money. He's on the same level as Peter Popoff and his "miracle spring water" that brings "divine transfers" of cash into people's accounts from GOD.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 15, 2007, 05:21:37 PM
Okay, cool. 2 million people took Vioxx. How many died as a result of that?
let's ban cars too they kill and injure even more people
What's your point? If one method of healing is dangerous, an alternate method should be used.
Quote from: some_person on August 18, 2007, 03:44:21 AM
What's your point? If one method of healing is dangerous, an alternate method should be used.
Can we make Serious Discussion invisible to the "special" users? This mostly means just some_person.
Quote from: Andrew1911 on August 18, 2007, 03:49:31 AM
Can we make Serious Discussion invisible to the "special" users? This mostly means just some_person.
What is it this time? Improper spelling/grammar or your opinion? :|
Quote from: steal on August 18, 2007, 04:03:01 AM
No, it's your sheer dumbassery and lack of comprehension.
I'm pretty sure I'm on topic, what am I missing? Or are you just letting the impression made on the internet effect this discussion?
Quote from: some_person on August 18, 2007, 03:44:21 AM
What's your point? If one method of healing is dangerous, an alternate method should be used.
Name some, then.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 18, 2007, 10:18:13 AM
Name some, then.
Ones proven to work (just making sure, I'd rather be safe then look like a bigger idiot then I am now)?
Quote from: some_person on August 18, 2007, 10:20:22 AM
Ones proven to work (just making sure, I'd rather be safe then look like a bigger idiot then I am now)?
Like what? Name some.
You're only digging yourself in deeper by claiming that some have been proven, without even telling us which.
Quote from: TheExAm on August 18, 2007, 10:23:50 AM
You're only digging yourself in deeper by claiming that some have been proven, without even telling us which.
Ok, sorry sweat;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 18, 2007, 10:22:24 AM
Like what? Name some.
Hypnosis has been known to prevent heart attacks (and I have proof somewhere that it can be used to heal warts, excuse me while I find that proof).
Quote from: some_person on August 18, 2007, 10:28:49 AM
Hypnosis has been known to prevent heart attacks (and I have proof somewhere that it can be used to heal warts, excuse me while I find that proof).
Really? Let's see these studies on heart attacks, please.
But we were talking about arthritis medication. Find some alternatives, please.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 18, 2007, 10:32:32 AM
Really? Let's see these studies on heart attacks, please.
But we were talking about arthritis medication. Find some alternatives, please.
I am sorry, but I only have proof for hypnosis healing warts. If you had confirmed that, I would have admitted I don't have (acceptable) proof on that, however, hypnosis can prevent heart attacks (for sure).
Quote from: Lawlz on August 19, 2007, 06:42:31 AM
Um...
Why must you be so immature (editing posts like that)? Anyways, all I can say about hypnosis and Arthritis is that it can only sooth the pain (is that what the FDA-approved medicine does?).
Quote from: some_person on August 19, 2007, 08:37:54 AM
Why must you be so immature (editing posts like that)? Anyways, all I can say about hypnosis and Arthritis is that it can only sooth the pain (is that what the FDA-approved medicine does?).
Why must you be a dumbass?
You said you don't have proof, but then you said it works for sure.
Quote from: Lawlz on August 19, 2007, 10:10:40 AM
Why must you be a dumbass?
You said you don't have proof, but then you said it works for sure.
I said I had no proof
for Arthritis (but I do have proof for Warts and enough info for preventing Heart Attacks, want those proofs?), but either way, editing posts like that is still immature.
Quote from: some_person on August 19, 2007, 10:14:01 AM
I said I had no proof for Arthritis (but I do have proof for Warts and enough info for preventing Heart Attacks, want those proofs?), but either way, editing posts like that is still immature.
Uh, that wasn't an edit. It was to get the point across that you're an idiot. psyduck;
Quote from: Lawlz on August 19, 2007, 10:23:36 AM
Uh, that wasn't an edit. It was to get the point across that you're an idiot. psyduck;
Then what's it called when you make a whole new post with the same text as an earlier post, but with a few changes to the post? Either way, how am I an idiot? I thought I make it clear that I thought you were wanting general proof on how hypnosis can heal stuff, which was why I told you guys I had solid proof that hypnosis can heal Warts (speaking of which, do you want my proof or not?).
I once heard that the FDA had a vaccine against cavities, but I don't know if that is even possible.
Quote from: Ash on August 22, 2007, 10:39:33 PM
I once heard that the FDA had a vaccine against cavities, but I don't know if that is even possible.
Lol, google (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_n8_v19/ai_20979812)
Quote from: Ash on August 22, 2007, 10:39:33 PM
I once heard that the FDA had a vaccine against cavities, but I don't know if that is even possible.
Okay, cool.
Two things:
What's the relevance? psyduck;
The FDA doesn't make drugs.
The FDA approves drugs. The point is that people think that the FDA is purposefully declining approval to medicines that work in favor of the ones that may not work, but give them the best profit.
Quote from: TheExAm on August 23, 2007, 04:33:57 PM
The FDA approves drugs. The point is that people think that the FDA is purposefully declining approval to medicines that work in favor of the ones that may not work, but give them the best profit.
How does the FDA profit from that?
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 23, 2007, 04:39:40 PM
How does the FDA profit from that?
Payoffs from lobbyists in the pharmaceutical industry seems to be reasonable
Quote from: JMV290 on August 23, 2007, 05:45:22 PM
Payoffs from lobbyists in the pharmaceutical industry seems to be reasonable
A plane ride and a golf trip isn't exactly going to black-ball every competitor. psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 23, 2007, 05:49:17 PM
A plane ride and a golf trip isn't exactly going to black-ball every competitor. psyduck;
cool.
I didn't say I agree with it. I was just providing an example of how they could profit.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 23, 2007, 01:29:29 PM
Two things:
What's the relevance? psyduck;
You tell us. You were the one who wanted to get specific with the Arthritis.
Quote from: some_person on August 23, 2007, 11:04:30 PM
You tell us. You were the one who wanted to get specific with the Arthritis.
That was Lawlz, idiot. psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 24, 2007, 12:05:29 PM
That was Lawlz, idiot. psyduck;
My apologies. When I remember something strongly (or something happens that stands out in my mind), I usually end up using that as a false memory.
Quote from: steal on August 26, 2007, 10:23:54 AM
How long is it going to take you guys to just ignore Guff? He's just a troll.
I really hate to say this, but right now, when you pointed that out dawkins;
Quote from: steal on August 26, 2007, 10:23:54 AM
How long is it going to take you guys to just ignore Guff? He's just a troll.
How is asking for evidence and trying to debunk idiotic claims the same as trolling? psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 26, 2007, 10:58:20 AM
How is asking for evidence and trying to debunk idiotic claims the same as trolling? psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 24, 2007, 12:05:29 PMQuote from: some_person on August 23, 2007, 11:04:30 PM
You tell us. You were the one who wanted to get specific with the Arthritis.
That was Lawlz, idiot. psyduck;
I don't know, you tell me.
Quote from: steal on August 26, 2007, 11:12:29 AM
You're just trying to piss people off and get them to argue with you. The difference between you and most trolls is that, well, you win.
I don't see what Guff's doing wrong.
Quote from: some_person on August 26, 2007, 11:10:04 AM
I don't know, you tell me.
So, I'm supposed to tolerate idiots that don't even bother checking the first page, and can't offer any evidence to support their claims? psyduck;
Quote from: steal on August 26, 2007, 11:12:29 AM
You're just trying to piss people off and get them to argue with you.
How do you figure that?
Okay, let's assume you're right. Now, what should I be doing?
Quote from: steal on August 26, 2007, 11:41:37 AM
You're doing exactly what you're supposed to be. Interrogating me and pissing me off. psyduck;
Now that we have that established, it's time to ignore you.
Oh, please let me apologize for trying to make idiots rethink their stances.
You're going to ignore me because I'm actually trying to debate in Serious Discussion? psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 26, 2007, 11:43:56 AM
Oh, please let me apologize for trying to make idiots rethink their stances.
You're going to ignore me because I'm actually trying to debate in Serious Discussion? psyduck;
I think that's his intention, yes. psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 26, 2007, 11:33:45 AM
So, I'm supposed to tolerate idiots that don't even bother checking the first page, and can't offer any evidence to support their claims? psyduck;
I want to provide the evidence, but at the moment, the evidence I have may not be taken seriously (even then, the only decent evidence I have is about curing warts, so if you want evidence, I can only refer you to a book), but if you want evidence to support hypnosis being able to prevent heart attacks (or at least reduce stress), just say the magic word, and I will (remember, it was Lawlz who mentioned Arthritis and you were the one who was bothering me about evidence about hypnosis curing Arthritis, which at the time I wasn't sure about).
Quote from: some_person on August 26, 2007, 11:51:18 AM
I want to provide the evidence, but at the moment, the evidence I have may not be taken seriously (even then, the only decent evidence I have is about curing warts, so if you want evidence, I can only refer you to a book), but if you want evidence to support hypnosis being able to prevent heart attacks (or at least reduce stress), just say the magic word, and I will (remember, it was Lawlz who mentioned Arthritis and you were the one who was bothering me about evidence about hypnosis curing Arthritis, which at the time I wasn't sure about).
Just give some damn sources. psyduck;
Quote from: steal on August 26, 2007, 11:56:35 AM
Ugh, you really know how to piss me off. Most of your posts don't contribute to this board at all. You never have any positive input on this board, you just point out everyone else's flaws in their arguments while you sit there and laugh at people's little mistakes and bouts of idiocy.
I'm not going to deny that this board is a piece of shit and that I don't help either, but you should at least try and come up with your own argument every once in a while instead of just criticizing everyone else's.
Uh, I'm pretty sure I'm sticking up for the belief that the FDA is not part of some cabal seeking to rob and kill the general population here. psyduck;
If ignorance goes unchecked, it's just going to get worse. There needs to be someone refuting unsupported claims, and hardly anyone else is. psyduck;
Also, you suck at ignoring me.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 26, 2007, 11:52:39 AM
Just give some damn sources. psyduck;
Well I thought my source had something about heart attacks (aka panic attacks), so based off of what hypnosis is supposed to do, you're going to have to take my word for it (for now), but I did find something for Arthritis pain relief (http://www.jbennette.com/resources/arthritis_pain.htm) (this is just a suggestion script for hypnosis). As for the warts, there's a book out there that has something to do with 200 homemade remedies (and stuff) by the TIME magazine editors (that's what I remember. I can't be sure for a week, when I can actually see the book again).
Quote from: some_person on August 26, 2007, 12:36:35 PM
Well I thought my source had something about heart attacks (aka panic attacks), so based off of what hypnosis is supposed to do, you're going to have to take my word for it (for now), but I did find something for Arthritis pain relief (http://"http://www.jbennette.com/resources/arthritis_pain.htm") (this is just a suggestion script for hypnosis). As for the warts, there's a book out there that has something to do with 200 homemade remedies (and stuff) by the TIME magazine editors (that's what I remember. I can't be sure for a week, when I can actually see the book again).
Awesome server not found error there.
Quote from: TheExAm on August 26, 2007, 02:15:12 PM
Awesome server not found error there.
You lazy dumbass, remove the quotes yourself (while I edit the post for more lazy people like you)! it's not that hard.
Quote from: steal on August 26, 2007, 02:25:05 PM
www.jbennette.com/resources/arthritis_pain.htm
Fixed.
Thank you flower;
Quote from: some_person on August 26, 2007, 12:36:35 PM
Well I thought my source had something about heart attacks (aka panic attacks), so based off of what hypnosis is supposed to do, you're going to have to take my word for it (for now), but I did find something for Arthritis pain relief (http://www.jbennette.com/resources/arthritis_pain.htm) (this is just a suggestion script for hypnosis). As for the warts, there's a book out there that has something to do with 200 homemade remedies (and stuff) by the TIME magazine editors (that's what I remember. I can't be sure for a week, when I can actually see the book again).
Hey, there's a nice bit at the bottom of the page:
QuoteDISCLAIMER: The resources in this website are complementary to medical and psychological resources. As such they are not intended to serve as substitutes for proper medical or psychological care.
Not to mention that it does not actually cite any studies.
Okay, warts might have some "natural" cures. Cool. But not everything does. Nor will the cures necessarily be more effective than the appropriate medicine.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 26, 2007, 05:14:41 PM
Hey, there's a nice bit at the bottom of the page:
Not to mention that it does not actually cite any studies.
Okay, warts might have some "natural" cures. Cool. But not everything does. Nor will the cures necessarily be more effective than the appropriate medicine.
Pain is a feeling, is it not?
Quote from: some_person on August 26, 2007, 05:38:29 PM
Pain is a feeling, is it not?
Are you unsure of yourself?
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 26, 2007, 05:40:52 PM
Are you unsure of yourself?
No, just wanted to make sure we can all agree on that so I could tell you that hypnosis is supposed to only soothe (pains), and I acknowledge that hypnosis shouldn't be used by itself. Speaking of which, is there any Arthritis medication that actually cure Arthritis?
Quote from: some_person on August 26, 2007, 05:52:26 PM
Speaking of which, is there any Arthritis medication that actually cure Arthritis?
For the most part, no. Though, it depends on which type.
Osteoarthritis, the most common type, is largely just wear and tear on the affected joints, which would be difficult to "cure" at all, let alone with drugs. Joint replacement surgery could help, but it's not perfect. There are also a few very exotic treatments with large, pseudoscientificish names, such as Rotational Field Quantum Magnetic Resonance and Radiosynoviorthesis.
Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disorder in which the immune system attacks the joints. As such, it may be curable at some point, but not currently. There is a class of drugs (DMARDs) that does somewhat of a better job than most other treatments at stopping the causes rather than just treating the pain, though.
Juvenile idiopathic arthritis, the most common form in children, can kind-of-sort-of-possibly treated with anti-inflammatory drugs.
Septic arthritis can usually be taken care of with antibiotics. There's a whole host of other diseases which can include arthritis. Curing the primary disease would most likely take care of the arthritis, or at least prevent it from progressing, though it would depend on the disease.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 12:02:04 PM
For the most part, no. Though, it depends on which type.
Osteoarthritis, the most common type, is largely just wear and tear on the affected joints, which would be difficult to "cure" at all, let alone with drugs. Joint replacement surgery could help, but it's not perfect. There are also a few very exotic treatments with large, pseudoscientificish names, such as Rotational Field Quantum Magnetic Resonance and Radiosynoviorthesis.
Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disorder in which the immune system attacks the joints. As such, it may be curable at some point, but not currently. There is a class of drugs (DMARDs) that does somewhat of a better job than most other treatments at stopping the causes rather than just treating the pain, though.
Juvenile idiopathic arthritis, the most common form in children, can kind-of-sort-of-possibly treated with anti-inflammatory drugs.
Septic arthritis can usually be taken care of with antibiotics. There's a whole host of other diseases which can include arthritis. Curing the primary disease would most likely take care of the arthritis, or at least prevent it from progressing, though it would depend on the disease.
Theoretically, Osteoarthritis can be healed with hypnosis (or some sort of subliminal something) . There's a book somewhere that claimed to have a true story about an old man beating Cancer with his mind alone.
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 04:33:14 PM
Theoretically, Osteoarthritis can be healed with hypnosis (or some sort of subliminal something) . There's a book somewhere that claimed to have a true story about an old man beating Cancer with his mind alone.
Who came up with this theory? What evidence is there?
Cool, there's also a book about a seaman seeking revenge on a mythical whale and bringing his unwitting crew down with him in the process.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 04:38:16 PM
Who came up with this theory? What evidence is there?
Cool, there's also a book about a seaman seeking revenge on a mythical whale and bringing his unwitting crew down with him in the process.
Please don't over exaggerate like that. The book has a title that has something to do about genies and your subconscious (the book is about treating your subconscious like a genie or something), and I thought I've seen at least 1 study somewhere...... But the only way I could prove it (for now) is to find that old man and have him tell you how he beat Cancer (assuming he did), but that would be hard.
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 04:45:54 PM
Please don't over exaggerate like that. The book has a title that has something to do about genies and your subconscious (the book is about treating your subconscious like a genie or something), and I thought I've seen at least 1 study somewhere...... But the only way I could prove it (for now) is to find that old man and have him tell you how he beat Cancer (assuming he did), but that would be hard.
Lay off the cartoons, kid.
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 04:45:54 PM
Please don't over exaggerate like that. The book has a title that has something to do about genies and your subconscious (the book is about treating your subconscious like a genie or something), and I thought I've seen at least 1 study somewhere...... But the only way I could prove it (for now) is to find that old man and have him tell you how he beat Cancer (assuming he did), but that would be hard.
How did I exaggerate, let alone overly so? psyduck;
So, basically, you still don't have any proof.
also i agree with lawlz
...ugly;
Quote from: Lawlz on August 27, 2007, 04:48:54 PM
Lay off the cartoons, kid.
Lay off the retardation, kid.
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 04:45:54 PM
Please don't over exaggerate like that. The book has a title that has something to do about genies and your subconscious (the book is about treating your subconscious like a genie or something), and I thought I've seen at least 1 study somewhere...... But the only way I could prove it (for now) is to find that old man and have him tell you how he beat Cancer (assuming he did), but that would be hard.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 04:49:26 PM
How did I exaggerate, let alone overly so? psyduck;
So, basically, you still don't have any proof.
also i agree with lawlz
...ugly;
By this:
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 04:38:16 PM
Who came up with this theory? What evidence is there?
Cool, there's also a book about a seaman seeking revenge on a mythical whale and bringing his unwitting crew down with him in the process.
The book I'm talking about is a non-fiction book, but that part of the book is questionable. And yes, I've yet to find solid proof (the only proof I have isn't very solid).
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 04:52:25 PM
Lay off the retardation, kid.
Comics=funnies=cartoons=comics=books
And heed your own advice.
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 04:52:25 PM
Lay off the retardation, kid.
I think you missed the point.
aw shit spoiled it
Quote from: Lawlz on August 27, 2007, 04:54:29 PM
Comics=funnies=cartoons=comics=books
And heed your own advice.
This is Serious Discussion, if you don't mind, I'm just a kid at most (I would like to leave the other internet stuff alone while I'm posting in this board), anyways, I also said that it's a
non fiction book, and I said that the story is questionable and I have no way to prove it (I want to, but I can't). And also do keep in mind that there are kids who don't know how to debate (I know how to debate, but I'm just not good with coming up with evidence, I want to, but I can't).
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 04:56:11 PM
I think you missed the point.
I think Lawlz did too (seeing how he missed the "non-fiction" part of that post)
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 05:39:01 PM
I also said that it's a non fiction book, and I said that the story is questionable and I have no way to prove it (I want to, but I can't)
until then its fiction
Also, I doubt I'm much older than you, if at all.
Quote from: Lawlz on August 27, 2007, 05:40:14 PM
until then its fiction
Also, I doubt I'm much older than you, if at all.
I know, but while debating (in this board), please acknowledge that I'm just a teen (the other parts of the internet, why not, but here, this is as close to real life we can get online). Also, just a non-fictional books contains fiction to explain stuff, that doesn't mean that the whole non-fictional book is fictional.
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 05:39:01 PM
...I also said that it's a non fiction book, and I said that the story is questionable and I have no way to prove it...
so uh what makes it
[glow=red,2,300]non[/glow]fiction then
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 05:43:00 PM
...please acknowledge that I'm just a teen...
That's not an excuse. psyduck;
Lawlz is a teen, too. So am I. So is just about everyone else here.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 05:52:32 PM
so uh what makes it [glow=red,2,300]non[/glow]fiction then
When (most of) the book explains how to do stuff or has proven research of the subject at hand (little fictional references don't make a whole non-fiction book fiction, for fictional references usually used as an example).
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 05:52:32 PM
That's not an excuse. psyduck;
Lawlz is a teen, too. So am I. So is just about everyone else here.
I feel it's a valid excuse, you guys have a IQ of about 150+ or something while I have the IQ of a regular, stereotypical teenager.
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 05:57:10 PM
When (most of) the book explains how to do stuff or has proven research of the subject at hand (little fictional references don't make a whole non-fiction book fiction, for fictional references usually used as an example).
I've yet to see any evidence of this research.
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 05:57:10 PM
I feel it's a valid excuse, you guys have a IQ of about 150+ or something while I have the IQ of a regular, stereotypical teenager.
Actually, Lawlz is an idiot, too. He just sucks a tad less.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 06:06:15 PM
I've yet to see any evidence of this research.
I haven't even given you thr straight title of the book, but if you want research papers, I will (try) to find some.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 06:06:15 PM
Actually, Lawlz is an idiot, too. He just sucks a tad less.
Outside Serious Discussion is where Lawlz is an idiot (or is he just joking around? Lot's of people joke around on the internet..... Too much in fact...... So much that the smart and serious people started calling "idiots" n00bs (there is no way to know for sure that someone is really an idiot online)).
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 06:06:15 PM
Actually, Lawlz is an idiot, too. He just sucks a tad less.
no im onle smurt wen i wunt 2 b
Also, I should lock this thread before it gets worse.
Quote from: Lawlz on August 27, 2007, 06:12:06 PM
no im onle smurt wen i wunt 2 b
Exactly! On the internet, you can be anyone you want, but it's up to other users to believe you.
Also, we are going off topic.
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 06:11:10 PM
I haven't even given you thr straight title of the book, but if you want research papers, I will (try) to find some.
Outside Serious Discussion is where Lawlz is an idiot (or is he just joking around? Lot's of people joke around on the internet..... Too much in fact...... So much that the smart and serious people started calling "idiots" n00bs (there is no way to know for sure that someone is really an idiot online)).
I've made it pretty clear that I want them. psyduck;
lol
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 06:12:58 PM
Also, we are going off topic.
you started it
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 06:14:42 PM
I've made it pretty clear that I want them. psyduck;
lol
And I made it clear that I was having a hard time finding them (BTW, here's one (http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=40295), and the rest are just a bunch of citations from other papers/books).
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 06:14:42 PM
you started it
I know (olololol I could be lying....... But If I was, or I was joking around (which I'm not), I would be banned).
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 06:23:24 PM
And I made it clear that I was having a hard time finding them (BTW, here's one (http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=40295), and the rest are just a bunch of citations from other papers/books).
That's an essay, you teenager. And it doesn't actually cite any research, nor does it make any specific claims. psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 06:29:00 PM
That's an essay, you teenager. And it doesn't actually cite any research, nor does it make any specific claims. psyduck;
Did you read it anyway? Also, aren't essays (normally) supposed to contain facts? Also, I spotted a claim (or maybe it's another fact, I can't prove it).
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 06:33:26 PM
Did you read it anyway?
Also, aren't essays (normally) supposed to contain facts?
Also, I spotted a claim (or maybe it's another fact, I can't prove it).
Yes.
They're supposed to, yes. But it makes no claim as to the viability of hypnosis being used as treatment for anything, just the concept of hypnosis in general, which isn't really all that disputed.
Cool. Where?
Also, the essays on that site are meant for high school students. And they're essays, not research papers. psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 06:40:26 PM
Yes.
They're supposed to, yes. But it makes no claim as to the viability of hypnosis being used as treatment for anything, just the concept of hypnosis in general, which isn't really all that disputed.
Cool. Where?
Also, the essays on that site are meant for high school students. And they're essays, not research papers. psyduck;
Does it matter? It has info on the subject we are talking about, anyways, this looks like a claim to me:
"Some
surgeons and anesthesiologists use it in
controlling pain, relaxing the
patient, relieving postsurgical depression, and controlling nausea."
How does that work?
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 06:43:41 PM
Does it matter?
When you're looking for actual facts, yes.
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 06:43:41 PM
How does that work?
Through suggestion. Or a placebo effect. It's kind of up in the air.
Quote from: Lawlz on August 27, 2007, 06:45:09 PM
When you're looking for actual facts, yes.
Actual facts? Can you prove that essay wrong? Either way, I shall go look for a research paper (again).
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 06:46:49 PM
Through suggestion. Or a placebo effect. It's kind of up in the air.
But the important thing is that it works, right?
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 06:46:52 PM
But the important thing is that it works, right?
If it's only a placebo effect, then no. Might as well just take sugar pills.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 06:54:02 PM
If it's only a placebo effect, then no. Might as well just take sugar pills.
As long as it works,
right? What's the point of using the Placebo Effect if it doesn't work?
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 06:55:44 PM
As long as it works, right? What's the point of using the Placebo Effect if it doesn't work?
wtc; are you trying to say psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 06:58:31 PM
wtc; are you trying to say psyduck;
that he has no idea what hes talking about
Quote from: Lawlz on August 27, 2007, 06:59:37 PM
that he has no idea what hes talking about
objection;
I'm (trying) to go somewhere with this. If medicine doesn't work, then what's the point in taking medicine?
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 07:02:44 PM
I'm (trying) to go somewhere with this. If medicine doesn't work, then what's the point in taking medicine?
What medicine doesn't work? psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 07:04:22 PM
What medicine doesn't work? psyduck;
That was a hypothetical question, now, are you going to answer it or do you want me to just come out with my point?
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 07:09:55 PM
That was a hypothetical question, now, are you going to answer it or do you want me to just come out with my point?
get on with it
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 27, 2007, 07:20:35 PM
get on with it
The Placebo Effect is medicine all the same.
Quote from: xXTheHaunted on August 27, 2007, 07:33:28 PM
But drugs make me feel better.
Begone, you do not belong here.
Quote from: some_person on August 27, 2007, 07:21:34 PM
The Placebo Effect is medicine all the same.
No, it's a psychological phenomena. psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 28, 2007, 12:05:41 PM
No, it's a psychological phenomena. psyduck;
Explain to me what the Placebo Effect does then.
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 03:46:46 PM
Explain to me what the Placebo Effect does then.
Google is your friend.
Quote from: The Joker on August 28, 2007, 03:50:02 PM
Google is your friend.
For the sake of the debate, please explain what the Placebo Effect is*
*And besides, Google isn't really my friend.
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 03:46:46 PM
Explain to me what the Placebo Effect does then.
Stop capitalizing it, first. psyduck;
just read the intro part of the placebo entry on wikipedia
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 03:52:29 PM
For the sake of the debate, please explain what the Placebo Effect is
uh why
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 03:46:46 PM
Explain to me what the Placebo Effect does then.
EXPLAINED IN THE SIMPLEST POSSIBLE WAY:
Doctor has some test patients. Some are given medication that is meant to help them recover, and another few get pills that are just little chunks of nothingness.
The doctor records the progress of both patients.
If he sees the patients that took the little chunks of nothingness "recover," it was all psychological.
Quote from: Lawlz on August 28, 2007, 03:54:09 PM
EXPLAINED IN THE SIMPLEST POSSIBLE WAY:
Doctor has some test patients. Some are given medication that is meant to help them recover, and another few get pills that are just little chunks of nothingness.
The doctor records the progress of both patients.
If he sees the patients that took the little chunks of nothingness "recover," it was all psychological.
I've seen pretty amazing stuff that involves the mind, do you think that the placebo effect could be used to soothe Arthritis pain? It's up to the mind to process pain, right?
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 03:56:09 PM
I've seen pretty amazing stuff that involves the mind, do you think that the placebo effect could be used to soothe Arthritis pain? It's up to the mind to process pain, right?
IGNORING HOW IDIOTIC THAT SOUNDS
uh for one, it's not very consistent, and it doesn't work if the patient actually knows the treatment or medicine is a placebo psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 28, 2007, 03:59:37 PM
IGNORING HOW IDIOTIC THAT SOUNDS
uh for one, it's not very consistent, and it doesn't work if the patient actually knows the treatment or medicine is a placebo psyduck;
That's true, but it can work, right?
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 04:01:29 PM
That's true, but it can work, right?
Yes, but it's never preferable to actual treatment. psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 28, 2007, 04:04:58 PM
Yes, but it's never preferable to actual treatment. psyduck;
All that matters is that it's been known to work, right?
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 04:19:07 PM
All that matters is that it's been known to work, right?
No.
No.
No.
It's largely ineffective, it's inconsistent, and there's no sure-fire way to actually cause it.
The placebo effect is an interesting psychological phenomena, not a treatment. psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 28, 2007, 04:26:50 PM
No.
No.
No.
It's largely ineffective, it's inconsistent, and there's no sure-fire way to actually cause it.
The placebo effect is an interesting psychological phenomena, not a treatment. psyduck;
Ok then, how many people do you think this actually works on?
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 04:35:48 PM
Ok then, how many people do you think this actually works on?
Well, most people that fake sickness.
Other figures are unknown.
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 04:35:48 PM
Ok then, how many people do you think this actually works on?
no but i heard of a book once that might have statistics on it
i forget the title tho ;___;
Quote from: Lawlz on August 28, 2007, 04:37:50 PM
Well, most people that fake sickness.
Other figures are unknown.
Ok then, now that we got that out of the way, hypnosis is more effective because you are more suggestible(?) that way. Now, based on that statement, do you think hypnosis could a good enough job to relieve Arthritis pain?
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 28, 2007, 04:39:13 PM
no but i heard of a book once that might have statistics on it
i forget the title tho ;___;
Don't worry, I did that too in this thread (unless you're just mocking me >_>)
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 04:41:09 PM
Ok then, now that we got that out of the way, hypnosis is more effective because you are more suggestible(?) that way. Now, based on that statement, do you think hypnosis could a good enough job to relieve Arthritis pain?
Hypnosis is stupid.
Quote from: Lawlz on August 28, 2007, 04:41:57 PM
Hypnosis is stupid.
Religious, paranoid, or skeptical?
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 04:41:09 PM
Now, based on that statement, do you think hypnosis could a good enough job to relieve Arthritis pain?
Possibly. But so would amputation.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 28, 2007, 04:44:49 PM
Possibly. But so would amputation.
But honestly, if you had proof hypnosis really does work/use hypnosis regularly, which would you rather use? Honestly, I wouldn't mind having a prosthetic (limb), however, that's only if hypnosis is not an option (or whatever reason).
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 04:49:04 PM
But honestly, if you had proof hypnosis really does work/use hypnosis regularly, which would you rather use? Honestly, I wouldn't mind having a prosthetic (limb), however, that's only if hypnosis is not an option (or whatever reason).
I'd rather get a massage that relaxes my muscles.
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 04:49:04 PM
But honestly, if you had proof hypnosis really does work/use hypnosis regularly, which would you rather use? Honestly, I wouldn't mind having a prosthetic (limb), however, that's only if hypnosis is not an option (or whatever reason).
I'd rather just take some anti-inflammatory drugs and the like, rather than get robbed by a hypnotist. psyduck;
my point is that many, many things could help, but that in no way makes them a good solution nor a practical one
Quote from: Lawlz on August 28, 2007, 04:49:56 PM
I'd rather get a massage that relaxes my muscles.
probably wouldn't help; arthritis has nothing to do with muscles
Quote from: Lawlz on August 28, 2007, 04:49:56 PM
I'd rather get a massage that relaxes my muscles.
..... That works well with my main point. Is massage an alternative to Arthritis medication?
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 28, 2007, 04:51:30 PM
I'd rather just take some anti-inflammatory drugs and the like, rather than get robbed by a hypnotist. psyduck;
my point is that many, many things could help, but that in no way makes them a good solution nor a practical one
Did I not provide enough evidence to support the idea of hypnosis? The hypnotist doesn't have that power unless you give it to him/her.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 28, 2007, 04:51:30 PM
probably wouldn't help; arthritis has nothing to do with muscles
it provides relief for some but not all. really just because it helps them relax, sometimes, maybe, not all the time
it does jack shit for those with rheumatoid arthritis since theyre all fucked up
Quote from: Lawlz on August 28, 2007, 04:57:33 PM
it provides relief for some but not all. really just because it helps them relax, sometimes, amybe, not all the time
it does jack shit for those with rheumatoid arthritis since theyre all fucked up
What about massaging the joints?
Quote from: Lawlz on August 28, 2007, 04:49:56 PM
I'd rather get a massage that loosens my joints.
Doesn't that sound better (forgetting about how idiotic this edit/post looks)?
Quote from: Lawlz on August 28, 2007, 04:57:33 PM
it provides relief for some but not all. really just because it helps them relax, sometimes, maybe, not all the time
okay so it doesn't sound all that effective
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 05:00:03 PM
What about massaging the joints?
No. psyduck;
that would not somehow repair the cartilage and reverse the joint damage
Quote from: Lawlz on August 28, 2007, 05:00:40 PM
It sounds stupid.
Forgetting about that, does the concept sound better? Did I get (a) cause of Arthritis right?
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 28, 2007, 05:02:19 PM
okay so it doesn't sound all that effective
anything beats hyponosis
Quote from: Commodore Guff on August 28, 2007, 05:02:19 PM
No. psyduck;
that would not somehow repair the cartilage and reverse the joint damage
What about bruises? How do we make the bruise go away (or at least make the color of the bruise lighter)?
Quote from: Lawlz on August 28, 2007, 05:05:15 PM
anything beats hyponosis
True, the only thing hypnosis can do is alter the feeling of pain (or speed up the healing of cuts, for example).
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 05:05:55 PM
What about bruises? How do we make the bruise go away (or at least make the color of the bruise lighter)?
You can't stop it. psyduck; That's your body fixing the bruise by breaking down and reabsorbing the blood, which can cause the bruise to go through many colors of the rainbow before it eventually disappears.
Quote from: The Joker on August 28, 2007, 05:08:56 PM
You can't stop it. psyduck; That's your body fixing the bruise by breaking down and reabsorbing the blood, which can cause the bruise to go through many colors of the rainbow before it eventually disappears.
Massaging the skin in the area of the bruise doesn't make the color of/the bruise go away faster? psyduck;
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 05:11:05 PM
Massaging the skin in the area of the bruise doesn't make the color of/the bruise go away faster? psyduck;
It can definitely help speed up the process by breaking up the blood that has pooled underneath the skin, but not by much. Plus it'll hurt like a bitch.
Quote from: The Joker on August 28, 2007, 05:14:01 PM
It can definitely help speed up the process by breaking up the blood that has pooled underneath the skin, but not by much. Plus it'll hurt like a bitch.
To me, it will just hurt, anyways, if "It can definitely help speed up the process by breaking up the blood that has pooled underneath the skin", then what about repairing the cartilage in the area where the Arthritis pain is? The concept sounds about right.
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 05:20:30 PM
To me, it will just hurt, anyways, if "It can definitely help speed up the process by breaking up the blood that has pooled underneath the skin", then what about repairing the cartilage in the area where the Arthritis pain is? The concept sounds about right.
cool
how would you go about doing this
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 05:20:30 PM
To me, it will just hurt, anyways, if "It can definitely help speed up the process by breaking up the blood that has pooled underneath the skin", then what about repairing the cartilage in the area where the Arthritis pain is? The concept sounds about right.
Massaging will not repair the cartilage. You are talking about simply helping bruises heal quicker, and mind you it won't be by much.
This should answer your question on massaging and if it can help "cure" athritis:
"Acutely inflamed joints should not be massaged but temporary relief can be obtained by very light, fast circular brushing movements over the affected area to help interrupt pain signals and distract from the main source of pain. Deeper massage above and below an affected joint will help increase overall circulation and help distract from the pain area."Keyword:
distract. Not necessarily heal.
Quote from: The Joker on August 28, 2007, 05:31:46 PM
Massaging will not repair the cartilage. You are talking about simply helping bruises heal quicker, and mind you it won't be by much.
This should answer your question on massaging and if it can help "cure" athritis:
"Acutely inflamed joints should not be massaged but temporary relief can be obtained by very light, fast circular brushing movements over the affected area to help interrupt pain signals and distract from the main source of pain. Deeper massage above and below an affected joint will help increase overall circulation and help distract from the pain area."
Keyword: distract. Not necessarily heal.
Well so much for that idea sweat; Well I'm out of ideas (the only thing I can say is that hypnosis can be used to stop feeling Arthritis pain (just watch this (http://www.tv-links.co.uk/video/9/7404/11935/72815/101622) (hopefully I got the right video, it should talk about hypnosis, and it should have a part that has the subject not feel any pain from a bit of really hot water))). So unless I come up with another (reasonable) idea, I will leave this debate.
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 05:53:40 PM
Well so much for that idea sweat; Well I'm out of ideas (the only thing I can say is that hypnosis can be used to stop feeling Arthritis pain (just watch this (http://www.tv-links.co.uk/video/9/7404/11935/72815/101622) (hopefully I got the right video, it should talk about hypnosis, and it should have a part that has the subject not feel any pain from a bit of really hot water))). So unless I come up with another (reasonable) idea, I will leave this debate.
cut it (you know what I'm talking about(the parentheses(the little semicircle things(the stuff this text is in(and this text)))))
Please excuse the bump, but after about a week, I now have access to the book I was talking about (the one that mentions hypnosis curing warts, but I'm only posting for proof of concept), the book is called "The Doctors Book of Home Remedies: Thousands of Tips and Techniques Anyone Can Use to Heal Everyday Health Problems", the ISBN is 0-553-29156-4, the page that mentions hypnosis to cure Warts is 694. Everything on that page is as follows:
Quote
Mind Games: Who's in Control Here?
Go into a trance. "You are getting very sleepy-soon you will be in a deep trance-soon your warts will disappear." Hogwash? No, hypnosis. And it may be a formidable weapon against warts.
According to psychiatrist Owen Surman, M.D., of Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston. "Hypnosis does seem to be a scientifically validated tool for treating warts. Why it would be is a subject of guesswork. Currently, people are very interested in this area called psychoneuroimmunology. It's attractive to think that mental phenomena could affect immune function."
In one study, Dr. Surman hypnotized 17 people who had warts on both sides of their bodies for a series of five sessions and told them that their warts would disappear from one side only. Another 7 people were not hypnotized and were instructed to abstrain from using any wart remedies on their own. Three months later, more than half of the hypnotized group had lost at least 75 percent of their warts. The people who hadn't been hypnotized still had their warts.
And although the warts that did go away disappeared from both sides of the hypnosis group's bodies, "we felt that the experiment was a success," says Dr. Surman.
From what this tells us, this does a better job at (actually doing something) then the placebo effect does, but it won't work on people like Lawlz.
boy that study doesn't seemed flawed
jk ^_^
17 people is an
extremely small sample size. And then the "control" group wasn't even half that. psyduck;
Even then, the control group consisted of no treatment whatsoever. This is completely useless for comparison.
Also, the type of warts, severity, and how long they had been around for was not specified, which could have easily skewed the results. Oh, and warts typically regress after a few months. For no one in the control group to have lost their warts is quite strange.
Quote from: some_person on September 03, 2007, 12:23:20 AM
From what this tells us, this does a better job at (actually doing something) then the placebo effect does...
The control group was not given a placebo. They were told to abstain from treatment. psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on September 03, 2007, 01:34:47 PM
boy that study doesn't seemed flawed
jk ^_^
17 people is an extremely small sample size. And then the "control" group wasn't even half that. psyduck
Even then, the control group consisted of no treatment whatsoever. This is completely useless for comparison.
Also, the type of warts, severity, and how long they had been around for was not specified, which could have easily skewed the results. Oh, and warts typically regress after a few months. For no one in the control group to have lost their warts is quite strange.Quote from: some_person on September 03, 2007, 12:23:20 AM
From what this tells us, this does a better job at (actually doing something) then the placebo effect does, but it won't work on people like Lawlz.
The control group was not given a placebo. They were told to abstain from treatment. psyduck;
That's what a control is supposed to do psyduck; Anyways, the test length was 5 sessions, which is about 60 minutes at most, when the sessions took place, we don't know...
Quote from: some_person on September 03, 2007, 06:47:53 PM
That's what a control is supposed to do psyduck;
Anyways, the test length was 5 sessions, which is about 60 minutes at most, when the sessions took place, we don't know...
The results need to be compared to another treatment (a placebo, at least), or they're completely useless.
cool i don't care
Quote from: Commodore Guff on September 04, 2007, 05:53:24 PM
The results need to be compared to another treatment (a placebo, at least), or they're completely useless.
cool i don't care
Who's says the experiment was to compare treatments? From what I can tell, that was only a proof-of-concept experiment.
Quote from: some_person on September 04, 2007, 06:22:39 PM
Who's says the experiment was to compare treatments? From what I can tell, that was only a proof-of-concept experiment.
But that says absolutely nothing of its validity. So it's useless.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on September 05, 2007, 12:21:52 PM
But that says absolutely nothing of its validity. So it's useless.
The test does show it works, however, we have no idea what times those sessions took place, but in the end, all you need to be able to do in an experiment is to be able to see a difference, right?
Quote from: some_person on August 28, 2007, 05:53:40 PM
Well so much for that idea sweat; Well I'm out of ideas (the only thing I can say is that hypnosis can be used to stop feeling Arthritis pain (just watch this (http://www.tv-links.co.uk/video/9/7404/11935/72815/101622) (hopefully I got the right video, it should talk about hypnosis, and it should have a part that has the subject not feel any pain from a bit of really hot water))). So unless I come up with another (reasonable) idea, I will leave this debate.
Oops! One quick thing about this post, do today's medicine cure Arthritis/for the time being, couldn't we just use pain relief as a temporary Arthritis pain "treatment"?
Quote from: some_person on September 05, 2007, 03:28:30 PM
The test does show it works...
Irrelevant, even if the results are valid. To be an effective treatment, it has to be more potent than a placebo.
YOU ARE NOT GETTING THIS
Quote from: some_person on September 05, 2007, 03:28:30 PM
...all you need to be able to do in an experiment is to be able to see a difference, right?
Uh, you need accurate results, too. And again, there was no difference to be seen. A placebo was not included in the "study."
Quote from: some_person on September 05, 2007, 03:32:16 PM
...do today's medicine cure Arthritis...
god christing damn already answered this
All long as we need it works, right? Sure, we still need to test if it's more effective than a placebo, but we know it does something, right? Anyways, this time around, just a simple "yes" or "no" would be fine (and if I remember correctly, we never really talked about pain relief being good enough until we find a real treatment for Arthritis).
Quote from: some_person on September 05, 2007, 03:47:21 PM
All long as we need it works, right?
what the christ are you trying to say
Quote from: some_person on September 05, 2007, 03:47:21 PM
Sure, we still need to test if it's more effective than a placebo, but we know it does something, right?
No. Not until it's tested against a placebo, and on a much larger scale will we know that
it does anything at all.
Quote from: some_person on September 05, 2007, 03:47:21 PM
Anyways, this time around, just a simple "yes" or "no" would be fine (and if I remember correctly, we never really talked about pain relief being good enough until we find a real treatment for Arthritis).
A yes or no would not be sufficient. There are many different types.
But don't all of the listed Arthritis types listed in this thread share one symptom? Anyways, you don't need a placebo to make the experiment a success (the validity of healing though hypnosis), we need a placebo to test against (to find out if hypnosis is more effective than a placebo).
What do you mean what am I trying to say? I'm asking, can we live with only (Arthritis) pain relief medication (assuming that's all the Arthritis medications can do at this time)?
Quote from: some_person on September 05, 2007, 04:20:15 PM
But don't all of the listed Arthritis types listed in this thread share one symptom?
what symptom
Quote from: some_person on September 05, 2007, 04:20:15 PM
Anyways, you don't need a placebo to make the experiment a success (the validity of healing though hypnosis), we need a placebo to test against (to find out if hypnosis is more effective than a placebo).
Yes, you do. If it is just a placebo, then the healing isn't actually from hypnosis. There's a pretty important distinction there. psyduck;
Quote from: some_person on September 05, 2007, 04:20:15 PM
What do you mean what am I trying to say?
you butchered the christ out of the english language with the sentence i was referring to
Quote from: some_person on September 05, 2007, 04:20:15 PM
I'm asking, can we live with only (Arthritis) pain relief medication (assuming that's all the Arthritis medications can do at this time)?
Yes; it's not a life-threatening illness.
what's your point
Don't the symptoms include things like inflamed joints and such? Anyways, I understand now, however, the way hypnosis is supposed to work leads me to believe hypnosis is not a placebo (assuming we are not counting subliminal suggestions as placebos, even though the subconscious is the one that makes the placebo effect possible).
Also, based off of your post, am I right to assume that there is no medication that actually heals Arthritis?
Quote from: some_person on September 05, 2007, 06:11:52 PM
Also, based off of your post, am I right to assume that there is no medication that actually heals Arthritis?
AS I'VE SAID BEFORE IT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE psyduck;
osteoarthritis and rheumatoid, no
ones that are caused by an infection, yes usually
Quote from: Commodore Guff on September 06, 2007, 01:31:27 PM
AS I'VE SAID BEFORE IT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE psyduck;
osteoarthritis and rheumatoid, no
ones that are caused by an infection, yes usually
I am sorry sweat; But based on what I told you about hypnosis, could that be an alternative to pain medication?
Quote from: some_person on September 06, 2007, 04:29:30 PM
But based on what I told you about hypnosis, could that be an alternative to pain medication?
Assuming that it works, which has yet to be proven, possibly. But cost-effectiveness is important, too.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on September 06, 2007, 04:37:17 PM
Assuming that it works, which has yet to be proven, possibly. But cost-effectiveness is important, too.
All hypnosis can do is pain relief (for sure).