The Sorry State of the CPU Industry: INCEL IS BANKRUPT & FINISHED

[Kalahari Inkantation]

Intel's woes continue: it looks like they've finally managed to make some 10nm CPUs for fairly widely-distributed devices, but can't fit a working video core on the same die.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13233/intel-crimson-canyon-nuc-with-cannon-lake-10nm

The first 10nm NUC lineup doesn't have any Intel GPUs. Instead they're pairing with radeon again, this time even on the lower models. Before, they only used Radeon in the most expensive high-powered Hades Canyon NUC, which like the Skull Canyon before it is quite a huge step up from the regular NUCi7 in price, size, and power draw.

I have always been of the opinion that a compelling argument in favor of Intel CPUs over AMD's is that Intel's entire lineup (minus server products) always come with a GPU built right in. It seems odd and maybe even slightly suspicious to me that this huge advantage is so commonly ignored or dismissed by professional CPU reviewers and AMD fanboys alike.

flagship amd cpus necessarily require you to go out and buy a separate gpu, which might be okay for gamers but is less attractive to enterprise and academic customers, for example (i mean yeah you could get an apu but those came over a year later and are way weaker)

So to hear now that Intel is struggling to integrate video cores onto their next-gen CPUs really is much bigger news than I think many people realize.

i would be absolutely shaking if i were incel, because this will greatly weaken their value proposition to all customers vs amd, unless they ultimately are able to squeeze a gpu back in in time for the general canon lake release (...in 2024 at this rate )

This new 10nm-based "Crimson Canyon" NUC line is supposedly releasing this September, more than a full year before the currently-projected (and probably prone to yet another delay) full run of 10nm chips. And this is only two months after the Coffee Lake NUCs "launched" (even though they're barely launched yet considering only like one online retailer has it in stock for an excessive price). Confusingly, both NUC lines are "8th Generation"

incel's suddenly very rapid and confusing release schedule strikes me as panicky lol

they were so much more composed (outwardly, at least) before ryzen struck

Also bafflingly, Intel is replacing the USB-C/TB3 port of the previous two NUC generations and the miniDP port of the three generations before that with a second HDMI port. There's no DisplayPort support at all. Also because of Radeon the PSU is bumped up from 65W to 90W despite sharing the same form factor as previous NUCs.

Just... why?

Also because of Radeon the PSU is bumped up from 65W to 90W despite sharing the same form factor as previous NUCs.

the sorry state of radeon

[bluaki]

I have always been of the opinion that a compelling argument in favor of Intel CPUs over AMD's is that Intel's entire lineup (minus server products) always come with a GPU built right in. It seems odd and maybe even slightly suspicious to me that this huge advantage is so commonly ignored or dismissed by professional CPU reviewers and AMD fanboys alike.

flagship amd cpus necessarily require you to go out and buy a separate gpu, which might be okay for gamers but is less attractive to enterprise and academic customers, for example (i mean yeah you could get an apu but those came over a year later and are way weaker)

So to hear now that Intel is struggling to integrate video cores onto their next-gen CPUs really is much bigger news than I think many people realize.

i would be absolutely shaking if i were incel, because this will greatly weaken their value proposition to all customers vs amd, unless they ultimately are able to squeeze a gpu back in in time for the general canon lake release (...in 2024 at this rate )

I doubt they'll release desktop CPUs without integrated graphics. I just mentioned this as a sign of just how incomplete their ability to manufacture 10nm chips really is at this point, like maybe the manufacturing failure rate is so bad right now they have to keep the chips simpler to get an acceptable pass rate. If every transistor has an equal defect rate, having say half as many transistors in the chip drastically lowers the number of chips with any defects. I know the graphics core is always a huge portion of modern Intel CPUs so half is probably a pretty fair estimate.

Funny thing is I didn't see news reports even mentioning this at all. They just see the included discrete GPU as a bonus and don't think about the deeper meaning of why this happened. Honestly, that's probably playing right into Intel's hands, since I'm sure they don't want the shareholders to think about this.

Also because of Radeon the PSU is bumped up from 65W to 90W despite sharing the same form factor as previous NUCs.

the sorry state of radeon

I mean, the power bump is more because of moving to discrete graphics at all than because of Radeon in particular. If Intel wants to claim not including their own GPU is a feature, they need to pick a powerful enough GPU that justifies going discrete.

[bluaki]

https://twitter.com/IntelGraphics/status/1029792940648878080

Intel's trying to tease their future (2020) discrete graphics cards by bragging about their experience with graphics. "IntelGraphics" is actually a brand new Twitter account, indicating Intel's shift to more graphics marketing I guess.

"Because at Intel, graphics are integrated into our core" sure unless you're having so much trouble actually making processors that you have to leave it out
"We were the first PC graphics to play Netflix movies in 4K" yeah you're sure leading the way on DRM

[Kalahari Inkantation]

https://twitter.com/IntelGraphics/status/1029792940648878080

Intel's trying to tease their future (2020) discrete graphics cards by bragging about their experience with graphics. "IntelGraphics" is actually a brand new Twitter account, indicating Intel's shift to more graphics marketing I guess.

"Because at Intel, graphics are integrated into our core" sure unless you're having so much trouble actually making processors that you have to leave it out
"We were the first PC graphics to play Netflix movies in 4K" yeah you're sure leading the way on DRM

i wonder why intel isn't bragging about larrabee

last year, just as soon as it became clear just how much of a miserable flaming blunder amd's vega is, amd's head gpu architect raja koduri (that's marijuana btw LOL) took a """""""""""""sabbatical"""""""""""""" from which he of course never returned, and then almost immediately got poached by intel upon separating from amd

https://newsroom.intel.com/biography/raja-m-koduri/

https://twitter.com/rajaontheedge

i am convinced the guy is a complete hack

i would be beyond (pleasantly) surprised to see a competent gpu come out of intel's newest discrete graphics project by 2020

my expectations, knowing their previous failures and knowing anything about koduri, are below even my expectations for radeon

[Kalahari Inkantation]

I loved my i5 4690K but I'll be damned if I shell out that kind of money again on a CPU. Pretty sure I got my Ryzen and mobo for the same price as just my cpu back when I made my original build.

What exactly did you end up getting again? Has it been a worthy improvement for you over the 4690k?

[Kalahari Inkantation]

i'd like to upgrade myself but it doesn't really make sense until at least the next generation (cannon lake/zen 2) of cpus

so i have high hopes for zen 2, plz don't disappoint amd

[Kalahari Inkantation]

oh i know they're good

there's just nothing on the market that's quite good enough compared to the i5 6500 to justify spending $400+ atm lol

honestly i'll probably wait until ddr5 becomes the standard before i do anything, and they claim it'll begin phasing ddr4 out in (probably late) 2019

[bluaki]

A couple days ago, Intel released a microcode update for patching some speculative execution vulnerabilities with a license agreement asserting users are forbidden from publishing any kind of benchmark data after installing the update. The language was so vague it could even apply to having for example a visible FPS counter while streaming.

After a very predictable Internet outrage, they responded and removed that clause from the user agreement.

[Kalahari Inkantation]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-announces-delay-to-7nm-processors-now-one-year-behind-expectations

Jesus Christ.

incel was supposed to have been on 10nm by 2017 at the latest

but their 10nm node is fundamentally borked here we are still on skylake+⁺ in 2020

7nm was supposed to be their saving grace and resstablish their dominance after the 10nm bungle

and now their 7nm too has been """""delayed""""" into AT LEAST 2023

As an $AMD shill, it's actually extremely discouraging to see the industry juggernaut stagnate like this in spite of their multi-billion dollar research budget.

INCEL IS FINISHED

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/intel-rides-strong-server-pc-sales-to-earnings-beat-and-forecasts-more-but-stock-still-falls-2020-07-23

AND BANKRUPT

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-stock-price-surpasses-intels-for-first-time-in-15-years

oh i know they're good

there's just nothing on the market that's quite good enough compared to the i5 6500 to justify spending $400+ atm lol

honestly i'll probably wait until ddr5 becomes the standard before i do anything, and they claim it'll begin phasing ddr4 out in (probably late) 2019

Two years later and there's STILL no price-sensible upgrade from an overclocked i5 6500, a CPU that launched in 2015.

[silvertone]

isnt china making their own cpu now

[ME##]

Both AMD and Incel are finished once Apple Silicon comes out and people marvel at its performance and low thermal outputs

[silvertone]

Both AMD and Incel are finished once Apple Silicon comes out and people marvel at its performance and low thermal outputs

except nothing will b compatible with it. frowny face

[Kalahari Inkantation]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15926/intel-7nm-delayed-by-6-months-company-to-take-pragmatic-approach-in-using-3rd-party-fabs

now this is unthinkable

incel's desperate enough to be preparing to outsource chip production to tsmc

an incredible concession that tsmc's process is now indisputably the best in the world and incel's nowhere near catching up lol

honestly i'm praying incel will fix its problems soon (L O L), the idea of tsmc or any foundry having an unchallenged global monopoly is terrifying

isnt china making their own cpu now

china #1 has tsmc, now the most advanced processor foundry in the world

china #2 had been investing heavily in domestic chip development, but the performance of their latest and greatest is about 10 years behind

https://www.tomshardware.com/features/zhaoxin-kx-u6780a-x86-cpu-tested

and now even the funding is drying up

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/Chinese-2.8bn-memory-chip-project-goes-bust

nonetheless, i don't doubt that china #2 will have developed shockingly competent processors within 10-20 years, the ccp perceives china's dependence on us/western technology as an existential risk

[Kalahari Inkantation]

Both AMD and Incel are finished once Apple Silicon comes out and people marvel at its performance and low thermal outputs

now this transition will be fun to watch

i would love to see apple blow x86 out of the water, but i'm skeptical of the idea that it's possible to have both superior performance and lower power draw lol

[Kalahari Inkantation]

market reaction to the long series of unfortunate events at incel:



lol

Meanwhile, at AMD: