I am Genius

[Socks]

Wow, Hippo, that was awesome! I will of course grant you the due regard and answer each of your questions and ideas as fully as I can and know them.

[strongbad]

to everyone giving socks shit for stealing, do you pirate digital (copyrighted) media?
shit's still stealing
not that i don't do it, but i hate how people justify piracy.

[snoorkel]

here's how I justify media piracy, I'm NOT downloading a cd in a case or a hardbound book (ie salable goods), I'm downloading sounds and letters

how can you own sounds and letters?!?!

[strongbad]

here's how I justify media piracy, I'm NOT downloading a cd in a case or a hardbound book (ie salable goods), I'm downloading sounds and letters

how can you own sounds and letters?!?!

i agree with that logic
but
i don't think that makes piracy okay. i think that digital sounds and letters are just as tangible as a book or a television. it's just a different medium. you're still getting something for free that somebody is expecting you to pay for. blah blah artists get no money from selling music anyways it all goes to record companies. fuck that logic. no matter how evil people make our record companies, it doesn't counter all that they do for the artist. the artist wouldn't sign with an agency if it didn't benefit them at all. even if the artists don't get a lot from the cd sales, the companies play a HUGE role in publicity, which leads to people going to the artist's shows and shit

[piano moths]

I dunn o about that. The people who created those sounds or arranged those words in that way still own them... And aren't getting compensated for your enjoyment of them. Which I guess is how its supposed to go. I don't buy a book or cd (i don't buy cds) for the physical copy so much as the enjoyment i get from reading or listening to it

but i download music from the internet too. I just can't really justify it. I download it because I don't want to pay for as much music as I want to listen to

[Thyme]

here's how I justify media piracy, I'm NOT downloading a cd in a case or a hardbound book (ie salable goods), I'm downloading sounds and letters

how can you own sounds and letters?!?!

and let's not forget that the original copy of these sounds and letters still exists, you're just copying them, you're not taking them away

[strongbad]

I dunn o about that. The people who created those sounds or arranged those words in that way still own them... And aren't getting compensated for your enjoyment of them. Which I guess is how its supposed to go. I don't buy a book or cd (i don't buy cds) for the physical copy so much as the enjoyment i get from reading or listening to it

But the artist AGREES to let the labels have the percentage of the profits, because it's in the artist's best interest. the artist wouldn't do it otherwise. and hey look, nobody is buying the album? that's going to make the artist much less valuable to the label, hurting their importance to the label.

[piano moths]

But the artist AGREES to let the labels have the percentage of the profits, because it's in the artist's best interest. the artist wouldn't do it otherwise. and hey look, nobody is buying the album? that's going to make the artist much less valuable to the label, hurting their importance to the label.

I'm sorry I'm not really understanding. I don't really know anything about the agreements made between labels and artists. But I'm still enjoying what they've created without giving them any money.

[strongbad]

I'm sorry I'm not really understanding. I don't really know anything about the agreements made between labels and artists. But I'm still enjoying what they've created without giving them any money.

what i'm saying is that the artist gives the label full permission to take that percentage of their sales. if they didn't, it would be illegal. artists that go sign with a label usually do it for publicity and production reasons. if they label gets hurt, the artist will inevitibely get hurt as well, because of the contract.
i think it's pretty easy to understand

i'm not trying to be an asshole or anything. i just really dislike when people validate their piracy by saying that it doesn't hurt the actual artist.

[snoorkel]

im going on about a slightly different thing but

But the artist AGREES to let the labels have the percentage of the profits, because it's in the artist's best interest. the artist wouldn't do it otherwise. and hey look, nobody is buying the album? that's going to make the artist much less valuable to the label, hurting their importance to the label.

music and book publishers work in such a convoluted market filled with extortion and political manipulation that regular principles like these don't really apply.

i agree with that logic
but
i don't think that makes piracy okay. i think that digital sounds and letters are just as tangible as a book or a television. it's just a different medium. you're still getting something for free that somebody is expecting you to pay for. blah blah artists get no money from selling music anyways it all goes to record companies. fuck that logic. no matter how evil people make our record companies, it doesn't counter all that they do for the artist. the artist wouldn't sign with an agency if it didn't benefit them at all. even if the artists don't get a lot from the cd sales, the companies play a HUGE role in publicity, which leads to people going to the artist's shows and shit

the difference to me is exactly that one is tangible and one is not

if you buy a CD or a book you are obviously buying it for the content, but what you are really buying it for is to have it, because it's a thing

the way a record label or a book publisher sells their content is by packaging it into attractive and convenient physical (and increasingly digital) formats to attract attention

it is sensible (though in my opinion not ethical) for a company to reserve rights to prosecute copyright abusers, IF AND ONLY IF the copyrighted content is being reproduced and SOLD in a venue unapproved by the copyright holder

this is why CC is cooler than Copyright because it distinguishes easily between "approved venue" scenarios, especially for digital content

but basically what I am saying is that if I pirate a book and print it off and give it to my friend, or class, or whatever, it is not piracy or copyright infringement. however if I took a PDF of a copyrighted book and did a cheap print run of it to sell on ebay, then it would be very questionable, because I would be copying a PRODUCT and products are what MONEY is about and MONEY is what LAW is about, not content and especially not ETHICS

[piano moths]

what i'm saying is that the artist gives the label full permission to take that percentage of their sales. if they didn't, it would be illegal. artists that go sign with a label usually do it for publicity and production reasons. if they label gets hurt, the artist will inevitibely get hurt as well, because of the contract.
i think it's pretty easy to understand

i'm not trying to be an asshole or anything. i just really dislike when people validate their piracy by saying that it doesn't hurt the actual artist.

did I imply that? Cuzz... I don't think I did/meant to.

[Nyerp]

uhhhh what the fuck why is this thread turning into a stupid piracy debate

stop it

[Socks]

It is late and I am tired dear friends.
I tried to sleep and not think of this damn thing any more and the more I thought of it the more I saw that it was killing me because I cannot exactly say where my motives come from, what inspires my desires and forms the dreams of my parade. What is this form of conscious that sees all things equally as they affect him fully but cares not for them? Certainly there is value in things but this does not mean that function equals such. If it did, there is an endless specter of possible notions and systems that could have merit simply in relation to themselves. And this cannot be the guiding belief in life. Because it is simply an objective necessity, built upon a subjective premise. In other words, a fallacy. But If it does sound familiar it should, because look around you, the world is built on such a principle.

This is essentially what 'money' is and how I value it. When I shop, when I go to the store or engage in transaction, it is always a matter of how much I have and am willing to spend versus how much it costs, and not about how much I worked and earned and it is worth. It is just a transactional commodity whose very purpose and practice is to facilitate a shared belief which shreds into pieces any notions that long term, intimate and self investment has anything to do with one's gains, fortune and standing. If you start to treat a material thing with too much attachment and emphasis on productivity, then you will miss that not even all of the money ever printed in the world can be worth more than the most gentle of kisses, smiles and winks... which are features and phenomenon that exist truly beyond themselves and will never mean more or less regardless of functional systems and or manners of understanding.

You must see the world not as a critic, but more of a poet, and realize that for whatever something is represented as, only those that most affect your soul have any real value, because they have impact. It is the only advice I can offer, as that comment said, it comes as naturally as breathing, so I do not fear or feel risk, I am always in the right, no matter what the prevailing attitude has instilled. After all, does living mean no more free choice? What are you following then? I should say, and maybe question why your desires and objectivity come so easy, what are they truly based on?

[Boogus Epirus Aurelius]

Media piracy is a response to the bullshit lack of adaptation the RIAA and the MPAA have made to changing technology.
When you focus a business model specifically built to kill piracy, you're also attacking the honest consumer.

I don't think it really even comes down to not wanting to spend the money. When you can pirate a song easier (and without DRM) than you can legitimately buy one, there's probably a problem there.

[piano moths]

if it took longer to download the free version than the version that would cost me I would still go with the free version but I see what you are saying!