Illegal Immigration

[Flameow]

Yeah. Damn illegal immigrants.

If they at least brought some shiny beads and smallpox infested blankets to give us they could live here no problem, but nooo. Our ancestors are so much better than these assholes trying to cross our border.

Sorry, "our" ancestors?
My mom immigrated here legally from Taiwan.  And my dad's grandparents came here legally through Ellis Island from Italy and Poland.  Not everyone is related to the Indian-killing illegal pilgrims of the 1600's, so the argument "our ancestors came here illegally, how dare we block modern-day illegals!" utterly fails.  There are avenues for legal immigration which should be taken.  It's not fair to the people who go through the legal process for others to climb over a fence and run in here with no regard for our laws. 
America is so different, there is no conceivable way to compare it to the olden days, or to justify modern actions with what happened centuries ago.

[YPrrrr]

Sorry, "our" ancestors?
My mom immigrated here legally from Taiwan.  And my dad's grandparents came here legally through Ellis Island from Italy and Poland.  Not everyone is related to the Indian-killing illegal pilgrims of the 1600's, so the argument "our ancestors came here illegally, how dare we block modern-day illegals!" utterly fails.  There are avenues for legal immigration which should be taken.  It's not fair to the people who go through the legal process for others to climb over a fence and run in here with no regard for our laws. 
America is so different, there is no conceivable way to compare it to the olden days, or to justify modern actions with what happened centuries ago.

Not all illegals are Mexican (the fence comment). How is someone trying to flee an oppressive government to save their family's life supposed to get legal documentation?

[Flameow]

Not all illegals are Mexican (the fence comment).

True, but they make up nearly 70% of illegals, so they're the biggest problem right now

How is someone trying to flee an oppressive government to save their family's life supposed to get legal documentation?.

I see refugees as being completely different - if they're fleeing persecution from an oppressive ruler, and their lives are in immediate danger, then it's our duty to shelter them, and I believe we have laws respecting the rights of refugees.  However, being poor just doesn't cut it.  The majority of immigrants coming through our borders are choosing to come because they're trying to escape poverty, and yeah, poverty sucks, but we have American poverty here too.  And they are bound by the laws just as much as any other citizen.  When poverty-stricken families sneak into the country, all they're doing is moving their problems from their old country to a new country.  It's not the same as refugees, where once they come into America, they are safe from a threat they left behind.  Once poor illegals come in, they're still poor and they've just broken the law.  America has an obligation to those escaping death, but not to every single poor family of the world who feels that they're some kind of special exception.

[Daddy]

I see refugees as being completely different - if they're fleeing persecution from an oppressive ruler, and their lives are in immediate danger, then it's our duty to shelter them, and I believe we have laws respecting the rights of refugees. 

The situation in Mexico is more complex than that.   While they aren't fleeing a war, they are still refugees of a sort.  Many parts of Mexico are extremely dangerous, I'd say some more so than areas in countries in war, with the drug trade and such gripping so much of the country and the rest of central America.

[YPrrrr]

I see refugees as being completely different - if they're fleeing persecution from an oppressive ruler, and their lives are in immediate danger, then it's our duty to shelter them, and I believe we have laws respecting the rights of refugees.  However, being poor just doesn't cut it.  The majority of immigrants coming through our borders are choosing to come because they're trying to escape poverty, and yeah, poverty sucks, but we have American poverty here too.  And they are bound by the laws just as much as any other citizen.  When poverty-stricken families sneak into the country, all they're doing is moving their problems from their old country to a new country.  It's not the same as refugees, where once they come into America, they are safe from a threat they left behind.  Once poor illegals come in, they're still poor and they've just broken the law.  America has an obligation to those escaping death, but not to every single poor family of the world who feels that they're some kind of special exception.

Our government apparently has trouble in determining these refugees. For example, some Chinese who tried to get into the country aboard the Golden Venture were jailed, and many were deported. Many of those trying to get into the country were running from the Chinese government's oppression, yet were still turned away. I don't think it's right to turn away people like that who are endangered, especially when families are at stake. It just really annoys me that some people tend to sweep these kinds of people underneath the same label as those just seeking to boost their economical status.

[Socks]

The situation in Mexico is more complex than that.   While they aren't fleeing a war, they are still refugees of a sort.  Many parts of Mexico are extremely dangerous, I'd say some more so than areas in countries in war, with the drug trade and such gripping so much of the country and the rest of central America.

So everyone in a country with developing problems has an automatic right to come to the United States? And we have a global obligation to take them in at our expense and demise? Instead of bettering their own country they are ruining ours. I'm all for legal immigration, but against anyone (criminals, sick etcââ,¬Â¦) coming here like it's their right just because they happen to live across the desert. There are people around the globe who can't jut waltz in here and have to wait years to get their documentation right, and sometimes they don't get them. It is not fair to those who apply for legal immigration if we ignore people who are coming here illegally. Heck the first thing they do in this country is break the law given they cross our national borders unlawfully.

Also "refugees" are usually temporary.

[Daddy]

So everyone in a country with developing problems has an automatic right to come to the United States?

Of course not.  I was just going more in depth into the situation in Mexico. 

And we have a global obligation to take them in at our expense and demise?

No, but we should help--or at least attempt.

Instead of bettering their own country they are ruining ours.

What about the countries we ruined.  Can the citizens of those nations freely come here? 

I'm all for legal immigration, but against anyone (criminals, sick etcââ,¬Â¦) coming here like it's their right just because they happen to live across the desert. There are people around the globe who can't jut waltz in here and have to wait years to get their documentation right, and sometimes they don't get them. It is not fair to those who apply for legal immigration if we ignore people who are coming here illegally. Heck the first thing they do in this country is break the law given they cross our national borders unlawfully.

We need to put pressure on the businesses in the US.   They try to get away with paying the immigrants less than minimum wage--which is still more than they'd make in Mexico.   If you remove that benefit we'd probably see a drop in illegal immigration.   We should make it easier for them to get in legally, we are partially at fault for the problems in their nation.

[Flameow]

How are we at fault for what's happening in Mexico?

[Daddy]

How are we at fault for what's happening in Mexico?

The US's Cold War attitude put plenty of less than desirable people in power if that person wasn't aligned with the USSR.  The anti-communist sentiment put people who essentially raped latin America into power.  The US supported high ranking members of the drug cartels because they worked as CIA operatives.  They remained free to create the current situation in Mexico without the US interfering since it was too concerned with stopping the "evil commies" from moving in next door.

[Zeta]

Let's not forget Reagan supporting Saddam and Bin Laden if you want to keep going about the assholes we put in positions of power just to screw with the USSR.

[j o e i n c]

They're breaking the law.

[Houdini]

The US's Cold War attitude put plenty of less than desirable people in power if that person wasn't aligned with the USSR.  The anti-communist sentiment put people who essentially raped latin America into power.  The US supported high ranking members of the drug cartels because they worked as CIA operatives.  They remained free to create the current situation in Mexico without the US interfering since it was too concerned with stopping the "evil commies" from moving in next door.

And let's not forget NAFTA.

[CHAOS66]

Well, it's sort of US's fault since they make it so difficult to become a citizen. I believe they should make it easier to become a citizen. Also, I don't see why you guys are talking about Mexicans. Since, at least imo, the real threat is people from the middle east atm. And many people do come in search of a "better life." And let's be honest, would Americans do most of the jobs illegals do? No! And don't start with that "Well I'm sure homeless people would gladly accept the job(s)." If they would why haven't they? IMO most homeless are homeless for a reason. I know, I'm sounding mean. But, does sitting around with a carton really help them? Why don't they just go out and look for a job? There are plenty of jobs that need filling, such as agricultural jobs.

[Zeta]

Well, it's sort of US's fault since they make it so difficult to become a citizen. I believe they should make it easier to become a citizen.

We're under no obligation to make that easier. You also seem to be confusing citizens and LPR's.

[QUOTE]  Also, I don't see why you guys are talking about Mexicans. Since, at least imo, the real threat is people from the middle east atm. And many people do come in search of a "better life." And let's be honest, would Americans do most of the jobs illegals do? No! And don't start with that "Well I'm sure homeless people would gladly accept the job(s)." If they would why haven't they? IMO most homeless are homeless for a reason. I know, I'm sounding mean. But, does sitting around with a carton really help them? Why don't they just go out and look for a job? There are plenty of jobs that need filling, such as agricultural jobs. [/QUOTE]

The majority of illegal immigrants are from Mexico.

Americans were doing the jobs illegals say we wouldn't do until they came around and did it for about a quarter of what you'd need to legally pay. Homeless people are homeless for a variety of reasons. It's not because they're lazy as you seem to be thinking. About 200,000 of them are veterans, most of whom can't function properly in society since we're so good to veterans in this country yet we love to slash medical benefits promised to them. Others are mentally ill. Some are meth/heroin/ect addicts who do whatever they can to get their drug. Some are just stupid hippies.

[YPrrrr]

We're under no obligation to make that easier. You also seem to be confusing citizens and LPR's.

The majority of illegal immigrants are from Mexico.

Americans were doing the jobs illegals say we wouldn't do until they came around and did it for about a quarter of what you'd need to legally pay. Homeless people are homeless for a variety of reasons. It's not because they're lazy as you seem to be thinking. About 200,000 of them are veterans, most of whom can't function properly in society since we're so good to veterans in this country yet we love to slash medical benefits promised to them. Others are mentally ill. Some are meth/heroin/ect addicts who do whatever they can to get their drug. Some are just stupid hippies.

Slaves did the jobs Americans didn't want to do too. I think it's pretty true that there are certain jobs most Americans are unwilling to take