I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, CAFFEINE, ANY OTHER LEGAL DRUG, or MARIJUANA.
What do you think about hard drugs like coke, heroin, and meth? If you're for marijuana legalization, do you also support legalizing narcotics? Are they unacceptable to you, pure evil forces that destroy people? Do they have any merit?
My intended course for this is a discussion of the ethics and morality involved in supporting, or consuming narcotics.
I don't know about the legalization of said drugs but I know for myself I would personally avoid anything that has addictive properties beyond that of alcohol... Obviously there is something to be said for willpower but I don't need the distraction as I am already rather scatterbrained and tend to obsess over certain things. Psychedelics are fine, but narcotics are something I avoid. That said, I don't think them to be necessarily "evil." I've seen plenty of people on them, and they aren't bad people because of it or anything. I do worry about them though I will admit... thankfully no one I know has a serious problem with them and will only use them on rare occassions. They're just more worrisome because you can OD on them. They can say they feel awesome as much as they want, but when they look like death I can't help but be a little concerned. Basically I don't necessarily have anything against them... but they would definitely need to be tightly, tightly controlled if legal to prevent ODs from occuring. On the bright side with legality you would know exactly what you're getting which would reduce ODs at least somewhat I suppose.
they should all be completely legal
I don't think they should be legal, but I think that the punishment for possessing/distributing them should be much more rehabilitation-centered than jail time-centered.
And I personally would never use them. I can only see them as doing horrible things to my body and my mind. In a world filled with so many toxins I find it stupid to intentionally inject even more into your body.
I also find it to be a sort of cheap shortcut or free ride to better thought and creativity. I enjoy the challenge and long road to a better and more pleasant consciousness.
Decriminalization or legalization depending on the drug with the following stipulations.
1.)Significantly stricter and mandatory sentencing for crimes(as in felonies and misdemeanors, not civil offenses) committed while on the drug. Testing with positive for the drug within a certain time period of robbery/theft/embezzlement/etc will also carry these stricter punishments.
2.)Stricter DUI punishments (for both the drugs and alcohol)
3.)Certain career opportunities may be allowed to discriminate against testing positive for certain drugs if there is a valid reason(operating buses, trains, planes. Being a cop, etc) However, if you are doing menial paperwork, there would be no valid reason to block someone for testing positive for cocaine. Obviously, protections wouldn't be extended to people high on the job.
Those 3 provisions allow people to do what they want with their body without being told otherwise, while at the same time letting them know that they are completely in charge of ensuring their own responsibility and not using such drugs responsibly will have greater consequences.
I'm ok with cocaine because it doesn't seem like it belongs in the "hard drugs" section as much as X does.
Meth is stupid
Heroin is even more stupid
Crack was invented by Ronald Reagan along with AIDS to kill black people, so fuck it.
Quote from: Porter on June 18, 2010, 10:05:13 PM
I'm ok with cocaine because it doesn't seem like it belongs in the "hard drugs" section as much as X does.
wat
dude wat
wat
Quote
Crack was invented by Ronald Reagan along with AIDS to kill black people, so fuck it.
It's sad because some people believe that :(
Quote from: Khadafi on June 18, 2010, 10:51:07 PM
wat
dude wat
wat
I dunno. I don't think X is a hard drug. Sort of intermediate.
QuoteIt's sad because some people believe that :(
Most rappers do at least
Quote from: Bushy on June 19, 2010, 10:03:23 PM
I dunno. I don't think X is a hard drug. Sort of intermediate.
It doesn't cause addiction or any of the other effects that cocaine, heroin, etc cause.
I wouldn't put it anywhere near being a "hard drug"
Quote
Most rappers do at least
It's silly. The possible Reagan thing is only the fact that blacks are more likely to use crack than whites while the punishment for possession is significantly higher than similar quantities of cocaine.
also this
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/US_incarceration_timeline.gif)
disclaimer: the chart isn't really that fair without comparing it to the us population. The baby boom was 20-30 years before the huge jump so this is somewhat expected, not in those numbers though.
Quote from: Khadafi on June 19, 2010, 10:26:15 PM
It's silly. The possible Reagan thing is only the fact that blacks are more likely to use crack than whites while the punishment for possession is significantly higher than similar quantities of cocaine.
also this
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/US_incarceration_timeline.gif)
disclaimer: the chart isn't really that fair without comparing it to the us population. The baby boom was 20-30 years before the huge jump so this is somewhat expected, not in those numbers though.
A lot of those jumps come after certain drugs were made illegal (Like 1920, 1935, 1971, ...)
Quote from: Bushy on June 20, 2010, 09:36:38 AM
A lot of those jumps come after certain drugs were made illegal (Like 1920, 1935, 1971, ...)
The major jump was after the war on drugs.
Better chart, not as rapid but still fucking disgusting how fast it rises.
(http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/graphs/incarcerationrate.jpg)
To quote Denis Leary "I know how to fix the drug problem in America, and no one wants to hear it, but it is true. Not less drugs, more drugs. More drugs, and give them to the right people."
I say let trailer trash bums and ghetto negros inject heroin and die, that way they don't kill a little girl in a serious car crash
Awesome my avatar thing is a joint. Awesome.
Quote from: Bushy on June 18, 2010, 10:05:13 PM
I'm ok with cocaine because it doesn't seem like it belongs in the "hard drugs" section as much as X does.
Meth is stupid
Heroin is even more stupid
Crack was invented by Ronald Reagan along with AIDS to kill black people, so fuck it.
What the fuck, learn your drugs. Coke is a fucking evil force that can undermine anyone's consciousness and turn them into an animal, it's a fact. MDMA is a relatively harmless entactogen and the most damage it ever causes is a minor serotonin crash on the comedown (yes I know there can be serious effects of over-use but it would be HUGE over-use).
Meth is far stupider than heroin, all things considered.
Quote from: Selkie on June 15, 2010, 07:08:25 PM
I don't think they should be legal, but I think that the punishment for possessing/distributing them should be much more rehabilitation-centered than jail time-centered.
This is a stupid idea because it's based on the concept that all drugs are bad, no one should be doing drugs, and anyone doing drugs will stop if they are forced to go to rehab. The problem drugs cause is not drug consumption, it's ripple-effects like gang crime, theft, etc. It needs to be looked at from the other angle (eg making it harder for a drug/gang lord to be powerful, which you could do by legalization (the supply chain would easily choose corporations and contracts over shady dealers).
Quote from: Selkie on June 15, 2010, 07:08:25 PM
I also find it to be a sort of cheap shortcut or free ride to better thought and creativity. I enjoy the challenge and long road to a better and more pleasant consciousness.
It's not like 'cheating' once, or occasionally, will undermine your effort. It will in fact make you far more efficient.
I find the present Western-based 'civilized' view and administration of "drugs" very uncivilized, and more worryingly, quite bizarre and absurd. The Harrison Act--which fundamentally changed everything--is perhaps the most radical piece of legislation ever passed by a modern governing body. For the first time in this country, it restricted, legally, what substance, you, as a (later established, of course) free and equal human being, may put into your own body. Think of how nonexistent, in absolute terms, the moral, ethical, even the historical foundation is for this approach. I won't even speak of why it became an issue--see prejudice and fear of the unknown. Furthermore, it was considered so ungodly unconstitutional it forced its insidious creators to peruse this course of action by improperly levying tax codes on commerce. I mention this first not because I care a whole lot about formality or pretense, but because it needs to be pointed out how illegal, unjust, immoral, and downright stupid the origin of the modern 'drug culture' phenomena is.
Every substance known to man, whether synthetic or lethal, should be wholly legal and available to everyone. The caveat is for personal use only. Of course no sensible person could consider forceful administration of a foreign substance upon anther's being as acceptable. Having said that, now would also be a prudent time to ponder state controlled agencies that apply all sorts of things to people, against their will, under the banner of protection. It is nothing more than institutionalized banditry. To all who claim concern for my physical, cognitive, emotional and spiritual health, may you be ridden of this burden. It is not sought nor greatly appreciated, as you are not my keeper. Exploring the boundaries of one's mind and heart is a beautiful experience; I revere and revel in passionately. This is for every Man to experience. It is no more a shortcut than living by the sea. And certainly no less challenging a thing to master and fully appreciate than Life itself. What is regrettable, however, is this atmosphere of constraint and fear which causes that rush to the mind and heart. This monster is far more oppressive and terrible than demonized chemical compounds. Even for me it is not easy to simply see it as eating an orange, albeit a highly delicious orange. You see, I can only have my orange given a daunting amount of preparation and measures. Other days I cannot have any oranges at all and must settle for sporadic apples. You can imagine the relationship I have with my fruit because of this. Compare it to your own special friend. While you're at it, make sure to hand me over that game console of yours before I criminalize tanning beds!
Almost all the root origins of current 'hard' drugs have been around in natural form since before we bothered with everything. Our coexistence with them, however, has only recently rotted and decayed. Without notions of restraint, scientific explanation, or precedent, these things were well known to the ancients and even better utilized by them. They were not addicts, the term did not even exist (and language plays a huge part in how human see and understand things, but I digress on this for now). Where they unproductive? Laughable! Significant issues arose with the rise of modern culture and society. This fact is undeniable. Even more undeniable is the difficulty to briefly state (and still make sense with some weight too) all that is wrong with how people perceive realty and behave in light of it. What changed is us. So take long hard look at yourself and consider whether you're really part of the solution, or the problem? Raise your children accordingly; keep them away from me though.
It boils down to a constant evolutionary conditioning of each subsequent generation--since the dawn of time--based on understanding innovation, creation, and destruction, through observation, practice, and selection. The former has far outpaced the latter, significantly. The result is a dysfunctional populous. One that strayed from intellectual and spiritual perusal, and careful application, to abuse a given effect in a domain it was not well suited for. Potential for this grew and developed exponentially when you consider the environment of our doing. It's a terrible tangle caused by a loss of touch. Instead of knee jerk reaction from within, only tightening and suffocating, people need to step back and view the knot from afar. It comes down to personal education, conduct, and characterââ,¬â€ťin general, experience through life. Not everyone is equal when it comes to these things, and therefore some are less well prepared to handle drugs. That's just the honest truth. But I do believe investing in the improvement of an individual's state of being, in all areas critical to achieving a more proper, prosperous, wise and old fool, will significantly help to reduce irresponsible and undisciplined use of drugs. After all, freedom is only a reflection of those who exercise it. Beyond that it is no one's say what I chose to do with myself if your peace is intact. My state of being cannot be considered part of your 'peace', however. I have just as much a right to exist the way I am as you do. So if you meet me, have some courtesy, have some sympathy, and some taste. Or I'll lay your soul to waste. ;)
socks writing is fun but you have to strive to be concise
I think they're really great if you're looking for a way to waste your time and otherwise fuck up your life. Stick to hallucinogens.
I think that everything, from pot to coke to heroin, should at least be decriminalized to possess. Legalization would be fine for "soft" drugs like weed and shrooms, but I don't think any government should bother with legalizing "hard" drugs. It would be best for the law to ignore them altogether. If the United States wasn't so strict on drugs, nobody would be shot in Juarez to ensure that a shipment of heroin is sold.
I wrote out a lot, but I'd rather just keep some of it to myself, the highlights of my paragraph were;
another word on E and other drugs that make you feel powerful. I hate that feeling, it's this lustful mindset where you put your wants before everything else, and it's hard to hold back.And everytime I get that mania feeling, when I crash I always think about how fucking egotistical i was acting and I hate it. I can't stand being around people on E sometimes. Their over friendliness gets on my nerves.
Quote from: Khadafi on June 19, 2010, 10:26:15 PM
It doesn't cause addiction or any of the other effects that cocaine, heroin, etc cause.
I wouldn't put it anywhere near being a "hard drug"
It's silly.
considering you don't know whats in your e pill I wouldn't say it isn't addicting. I have friends that can't go to a damn rave without getting high off E, it's very addictive if you ask me. Maybe not physically. But you crave that euphoric high, and next thing you know you're poppin 2 times a month, might not seem like a lot, but that is a lot over time especially if it's hard to get away from cuz your lifestyle. And every person is differnt, I know a dude who has popped hundreds of times and he's fine. Some people's brains just turn to mush tho, and we call them E-tards.
socks, you have a completely valid point, but people are stupid, and sometimes you got to stop them from destroying themselves. If drugs were legal, a lot of people would want to sell them. Kinda like how many fucking weed clinics have popped up in recent years cuz you can get a weed card. In fact there's so many in LA its like starbucks. and every clinic that's set up shop is taking up space for what could be a much more beneficial mom n pop store for the community, or a starbucks. Look at how accepted cigarettes and alcohol are. It's perfectly normal to indulge in these, yet your scum if you indulge in hard drugs. Now if there was no law, people might start to believe it's normal to indulge in these drugs, cuz it's legal. bad news written all over it. If only the world was perfect where people only indulged in what they could handle and there were no OD's that led to a social sense against drugs. let me rephrase that; If only the world was perfect and there were no idiots. but then pop culture would be awful dry, and we would never learn from other's mistakes if they were perfect. man i wasted my time writing this.
Quote from: cozio on July 13, 2010, 08:34:36 AM
I think that everything, from pot to coke to heroin, should at least be decriminalized to possess. Legalization would be fine for "soft" drugs like weed and shrooms, but I don't think any government should bother with legalizing "hard" drugs. It would be best for the law to ignore them altogether. If the United States wasn't so strict on drugs, nobody would be shot in Juarez to ensure that a shipment of heroin is sold.
They are fighting on who gets the rights to sell those drugs in Juarez. It is the cartels at war.
Quote from: FAMY2 on November 11, 2010, 05:23:27 PM
They are fighting on who gets the rights to sell those drugs in Juarez. It is the cartels at war.
did this trigger a hysterical laugh for anyone else? and i mean guy with the levitating goat type of deal here.