http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/5373379/Animals-can-tell-right-from-wrong.html
Article on morality within different species, showing that it is hardwired into the brains of social animals. How do you think this affects the argument that humans only have morality "because of God" like many theists claim?
Would you still claim that if you believed it? Would you then claim that animals also get their morality from God? Or do you realize that morality itself is subjective/hardcoded into the brains of social mammals?
Also, I find these two interesting:
Quote
DIANA MONKEYS
A laboratory experiment trained Diana monkeys to insert a token into a slot to obtain food.
A male who had grown to be adept at the task was found to be helping the oldest female who had not been able to learn how to insert the token.
On three occasion the male monkey picked up tokens she dropped and inserted them into the slot and allowed her to have the food.
As there was no benefit for the male monkey, Prof Bekoff argues that this is a clear example of an animal's actions being driven by some internal moral compass.
CHIMPANZEES
Known to be among the most cognitively advanced of the great apes and our closest cousin, it is perhaps not surprising that scientists should suggest they live by moral codes.
A chimpanzee known as Knuckles ââ,¬â€œ from the Centre for Great Apes in Florida ââ,¬â€œ is the only known captive chimpanzee to suffer from cerebral palsy, which leaves him physically and mentally handicapped.
Scientists have found that other chimpanzees in his group treat him differently and he is rarely subjected to intimidating displays of aggression from older males.
Chimpanzees also demonstrate a sense of justice and those who deviate from the code of conduct of a group are set upon by other members as punishment.
I would argue humans have less morality than animals
Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on May 25, 2009, 06:47:20 AM
A chimpanzee known as Knuckles ââ,¬â€œ from the Centre for Great Apes in Florida ââ,¬â€œ is the only known captive chimpanzee to suffer from cerebral palsy, which leaves him physically and mentally handicapped.
;_;
Also I believe God gave every living organism morals. I don't know why anyone would think just humans specifically were given them.
Quote from: Det in Fââ,,¢Â¯ Major on May 25, 2009, 07:31:33 AM
;_;
Also I believe God gave every living organism morals. I don't know why anyone would think just humans specifically were given them.
There are quite a few religious people who will go "omg without god how do you get your morals!?!?!11111111111111" as if the only way to have morality is following their religion.
Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on May 25, 2009, 07:39:19 AM
There are quite a few religious people who will go "omg without god how do you get your morals!?!?!11111111111111" as if the only way to have morality is following their religion.
what the hell lullllllllll
these religions are the ones who probably are like sinning the most because they're so stupid and exclusive and its like uhhh i believe we should accept everyone and put them in the right direction if they're going through a hard time but not threaten them and stupid shit like that
Blue Jays have no morals. ;_;
Quote from: Stupid Fucking Slut on May 25, 2009, 09:44:02 AM
Blue Jays have no morals. ;_;
It's their lack of morals that let the Red Sox pass them.
Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on May 25, 2009, 09:45:10 AM
It's their lack of morals that let the Red Sox pass them.
Yankees are the dirtiest of them all.
I read somewhere that there's a bigger mental gap between Humans and people like Aristotle than Humans and Chimpanzees.
Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on May 25, 2009, 09:45:10 AM
It's their lack of morals that let the Red Sox pass them.
Right... hey Big Papi, how's the steroid-less season going
Is there really such a thing as morals for humans or otherwise?
It's simply basic problem solving that the more members of your species survive the more likely your group is successful, in the end it's long term survival. If a member of the group lowers the overall units chances of survival, it's beneficial to punish or kill that member.
"Right" and "wrong" without the traditions of Humans in the end comes down to "productive" or "counter productive".
wuz dur morals b4 reilgion lol
Quote from: Stupid Fucking Slut on May 26, 2009, 07:00:58 AM
wuz dur morals b4 reilgion lol
dur stupid no because when god created adum n eve he krated religion god that was a stupid qustion
ok u goys das enuff intenshenal mispelings 4 now lol
And I'd hesitate to describe what's discussed in the article as morality. If anything, it shows that animals have an instinctive sense of group solidarity. They simply try to do what's best to ensure their own survival, which must necessarily include what's best for the survival of the group. I wouldn't elevate that to the level of 'morality'--certainly not anything that's comparable to human morality, anyway.
if anything, it shows slim is a fagot
you need god to have morals. lets see:
hitler was an atheist
stalin was an atheist
hmmm. how many did they kill? they had no morals. because there's nothing to fear. you're just here for no reason and then poof you're gone, all your bad deeds unpunished? lol YEAH
Quote from: j o e i n c on May 26, 2009, 04:21:16 PM
if anything, it shows slim is a fagot
you need god to have morals. lets see:
hitler was an atheist
stalin was an atheist
hmmm. how many did they kill? they had no morals. because there's nothing to fear. you're just here for no reason and then poof you're gone, all your bad deeds unpunished? lol YEAH
Huh? Why am I mentioned in your post?
Hitler believed in some kind of God, by the way. He may not have been a Catholic, but I wouldn't call him an atheist by any stretch of the imagination.
Quote from: Slim on May 26, 2009, 04:54:42 PM
Huh? Why am I mentioned in your post?
Hitler believed in some kind of God, by the way. He may not have been a Catholic, but I wouldn't call him an atheist by any stretch of the imagination.
NO, your a liar. i looked it up, use google dumbass
he was an athiest because:
1. i found a website (look it up yourself )
2. you have to have no morals (IE: no religion) to kill all those people. he had no morals, he was an athiest
Quote from: j o e i n c on May 26, 2009, 07:46:42 PM
NO, your a liar. i looked it up, use google dumbass
he was an athiest because:
1. i found a website (look it up yourself )
2. you have to have no morals (IE: no religion) to kill all those people. he had no morals, he was an athiest
is it bad that i can't tell if this is sarcasm or not?
Quote from: Laurium on May 26, 2009, 08:19:41 PM
is it bad that i can't tell if this is sarcasm or not?
yes
Question: Without God where would we get our morals?!?!?!?!
Answer: boyah
Quote from: JaleelWhite320 on May 26, 2009, 08:50:14 PM
Question: Without God where would we get our morals?!?!?!?!
Answer: boyah
thank god for god
Quote from: j o e i n c on May 26, 2009, 07:46:42 PM
NO, your a liar. i looked it up, use google dumbass
he was an athiest because:
1. i found a website (look it up yourself )
2. you have to have no morals (IE: no religion) to kill all those people. he had no morals, he was an athiest
have you ever posted in a thread before without ruining it? i'm honestly curious.
Quote from: YPR on May 26, 2009, 08:59:23 PM
thank god for god
i would actually have to agree with this
I find people who don't believe in a God to potentially be far scarier than those that do, simply because atheists have no reason to follow any sort of moral code. If our existence is pointless and there's no punishment for your actions in life, then why have morals?
Quote from: Zach on May 27, 2009, 11:47:48 PM
I find people who don't believe in a God to potentially be far scarier than those that do, simply because atheists have no reason to follow any sort of moral code.
self-preservation is a pretty good reason akudood;
Quote from: Zach on May 27, 2009, 11:47:48 PM
If our existence is pointless and there's no punishment for your actions in life, then why have morals?
jail is punishment akudood;
Quote from: guff on May 27, 2009, 11:53:24 PM
jail is punishment akudood;
you get free food and a room n____n
Even though theists claim that we're only moral because of God, I believe it's total bullshit. I'm moral because I was raised to be moral. Coincidentally, I live in a Christian household, and I'm even a Christian. But I'm not good because God said I should be good. I'm moral because I'm supposed to be an example to people who aren't Christians, and because, if I wasn't moral, I couldn't show my face in public.
Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on May 28, 2009, 08:38:51 AM
Even though theists claim that we're only moral because of God, I believe it's total bullshit. I'm moral because I was raised to be moral. Coincidentally, I live in a Christian household, and I'm even a Christian. But I'm not good because God said I should be good. I'm moral because I'm supposed to be an example to people who aren't Christians, and because, if I wasn't moral, I couldn't show my face in public.
You just made points for both sides of the argument huhdoodame;
Quote from: YPR on May 28, 2009, 08:40:57 AM
You just made points for both sides of the argument huhdoodame;
I went more on the "atheist" side of the argument. All I said was that I am an example, not because God told me to. I choose to be this way.
You have to realize that I'm not like the typical fundamentalist Christian. In fact, I bash them more than I do atheists.
Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on May 28, 2009, 08:38:51 AM
Even though theists claim that we're only moral because of God, I believe it's total bullshit. I'm moral because I was raised to be moral. Coincidentally, I live in a Christian household, and I'm even a Christian. But I'm not good because God said I should be good. I'm moral because I'm supposed to be an example to people who aren't Christians, and because, if I wasn't moral, I couldn't show my face in public.
wut
Quote from: Zach on May 28, 2009, 11:24:06 AM
wut
Simply, I'm "moral" because I choose to be, not because God said I should be.
Quote from: PuuMastaFunk on May 29, 2009, 08:22:09 AM
Simply, I'm "moral" because I choose to be, not because God said I should be.
But if there is no God (and I know that you're religious, so this is just rhetorical), why should you choose to be moral? If existence is pointless, then why not fuck all the bitches you want and lie and cheat and steal? It doesn't matter; you're just going to be maggot food when you die anyway.
Quote from: Zach on May 31, 2009, 02:32:07 AM
But if there is no God (and I know that you're religious, so this is just rhetorical), why should you choose to be moral? If existence is pointless, then why not fuck all the bitches you want and lie and cheat and steal? It doesn't matter; you're just going to be maggot food when you die anyway.
for the existence and harmony of our children and the future generations of the human race
I think God gives everyone morals or a higher power whatever you believe in. If you don't believe in God whatever, he still have you morals weather you believe it or not.. But probably something to do with nurture vs. nature whatever that whole situation is has something to do with it..
Quote from: laylay on May 31, 2009, 07:09:38 PM
I think God gives everyone morals or a higher power whatever you believe in. If you don't believe in God whatever, he still have you morals weather you believe it or not.. But probably something to do with nurture vs. nature whatever that whole situation is has something to do with it..
That's because you are a dumb bitch. Morals are human conceived. Humans make morals, not God.
Yes, it does have a little bit to do with nature vs. nurture. Or rather, its both. Nature as in genetics, since some people are born without morals or values. Then there's the nurture part, where their childhood was so fucked up that they lost some or all of their morals, or they got twisted. But morals are merely a human label, as I said. It is the norm.
500 years ago, it was commonplace for people to get married at age 13, sometimes even younger. Our morals and norms have changed since then indirectly due to advances in medicine and society. Did God just suddenly say, "Hey, fuck that, people should marry and have children when they're older." NO. People did.
Quote from: Joe on May 31, 2009, 07:16:13 PM
500 years ago, it was commonplace for people to get married at age 13, sometimes even younger. Our morals and norms have changed since then indirectly due to advances in medicine and society. Did God just suddenly say, "Hey, fuck that, people should marry and have children when they're older." NO. People did.
objection!
Life expectancy was lower 500 years ago. medieval britain's life expectancy was 20-30 years.
You had to marry at 13 and have kids young.
Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on May 31, 2009, 07:22:01 PM
objection!
Life expectancy was lower 500 years ago. medieval britain's life expectancy was 20-30 years.
You had to marry at 13 and have kids young.
That's pretty much where I was going with the whole advances in medicine and society part.
Quote from: Zach on May 31, 2009, 02:32:07 AM
But if there is no God (and I know that you're religious, so this is just rhetorical), why should you choose to be moral? If existence is pointless, then why not fuck all the bitches you want and lie and cheat and steal? It doesn't matter; you're just going to be maggot food when you die anyway.
Well, I don't know. There are two possible answers. Either I would still be moral because I want to be, or I would, as you so bluntly put it, fuck all the bitches I want.
Quote from: Joe on May 31, 2009, 07:16:13 PM
That's because you are a dumb bitch. Morals are human conceived. Humans make morals, not God.
Yes, it does have a little bit to do with nature vs. nurture. Or rather, its both. Nature as in genetics, since some people are born without morals or values. Then there's the nurture part, where their childhood was so fucked up that they lost some or all of their morals, or they got twisted. But morals are merely a human label, as I said. It is the norm.
500 years ago, it was commonplace for people to get married at age 13, sometimes even younger. Our morals and norms have changed since then indirectly due to advances in medicine and society. Did God just suddenly say, "Hey, fuck that, people should marry and have children when they're older." NO. People did.
I know what nature vs. nurture is and I know the explanation of it thanks.
BUT God made people, therefore God made people make morals.
Quote from: Crazy Fucking Raccoon on May 31, 2009, 07:22:01 PM
objection!
Life expectancy was lower 500 years ago. medieval britain's life expectancy was 20-30 years.
You had to marry at 13 and have kids young.
Seriously? I thought it was headed toward the 30-40 year level.
Quote from: Velcro on June 01, 2009, 01:52:50 PM
Seriously? I thought it was headed toward the 30-40 year level.
That's what it was for a member of the upper classes, maybe. However, for a majority of people, it would have been what JMV said.
Quote from: Slim on June 01, 2009, 01:58:30 PM
That's what it was for a member of the upper classes, maybe. However, for a majority of people, it would have been what JMV said.
Because of the lack of medical attention (which has been mentioned), and the a total disregard for cleanliness. That wouldn't really come into play until the Plague.