Boyah Forums

Discuss this great game and organize matches here.

See also:
List of Steam names (http://boyah.net/forums/index.php/topic,30000.0.html)

I used to play, but my internet got cut off.


also it was on 360

Quote from: There is a truck parked outside of a grocery store on September 04, 2008, 02:33:36 PM
it was on 360

poor you :'(

i'm like 2 achievements away from the 1st pyro weapon and i decided i don't like pyro that much. I'm waiting for another class update.

Quote from: UnagiPower on September 04, 2008, 05:30:49 PM
i'm like 2 achievements away from the 1st pyro weapon and i decided i don't like pyro that much. I'm waiting for another class update.

heavy update came out a few weeks ago, maget

Quote from: Zidone on September 04, 2008, 07:21:06 PM
heavy update came out a few weeks ago, maget

heavy...

nah

don't know why.  :|

i am superspy

Quote from: UnagiPower on September 04, 2008, 07:25:45 PM
heavy...

nah

don't know why.  :|

you don't want a sandvich? baddood;

Quote from: Bassir on September 04, 2008, 08:31:50 PM
i am superspy

jening is the only true superspy :|

Sandviches are so awesome. I doubt I'll ever use gloves or the other gun though.

I haven't played as much as I did when I first got it. Pyros are still like the most played class in the game, because they're the easiest to play.

we seriously need to have an organized match sometime

boyager battle

Quote from: Zidone on September 10, 2008, 06:51:47 PM
we seriously need to have an organized match sometime

boyager battle

I'd be willing to start up steam for that.

Otherwise I'm too lazy.

Quote from: UnagiPower on September 10, 2008, 07:48:07 PM
I'd be willing to start up steam for that.

Otherwise I'm too lazy.

it would be ballin' but the only boyagers i see playing tf2 now are me, bassir, and paul

Quote from: Zidone on September 11, 2008, 06:43:36 PM
it would be ballin' but the only boyagers i see playing tf2 now are me, bassir, and paul

I play TF2  baddood;

Quote from: Geano on September 11, 2008, 06:44:31 PM
I play TF2  baddood;

um you've never told us this

steam name please

Quote from: Zidone on September 11, 2008, 06:46:07 PM
um you've never told us this

steam name please

I have it on my computer but oh god it lags so much

So I play the lagless shittier 360 version.

Quote from: Geano on September 11, 2008, 09:06:35 PM
I have it on my computer but oh god it lags so much

So I play the lagless shittier 360 version.

xbox circle players are not invited baddood;

Quote from: Zidone on September 11, 2008, 06:43:36 PM
it would be ballin' but the only boyagers i see playing tf2 now are me, bassir, and paul

I still play it a lot, but I haven't been bothered enough to reinstall it right now.

bump :|

Quote from: Geano on September 11, 2008, 09:06:35 PM
I have it on my computer but oh god it lags so much

So I play the lagless shittier 360 version.

why would you buy the same game twice

so are there any frequent tf2 players here besides me, nathan and bassir

Quote from: Zidone on October 10, 2008, 06:39:14 PM
so are there any frequent tf2 players here besides me, nathan and bassir

I have it.

Quote from: Geno on October 10, 2008, 07:32:31 PM
I have it.

i mean people who play the PC version :|

Hello, all. Juicebox360's the name. Engy is my game.

Quote from: juicebox360 on October 10, 2008, 08:57:57 PM
Hello, all. Juicebox360's the name. Engy is my game.

sup thumbup;

If anyone wants a list of exploits for MARIO_KART, just contact me for a small list. Maybe I'll consult Zidone for more 'ploits

holy shit since when does snorkel have the game

I have am obsessed with TF2. I play on Xbox 360 and PC. Riosan recently fixed a problem I was having with the PC version so expect me to be on that more often.

while i think my lag is due to crappy graphics card i am buying 512mb ram for $10 from my friend and if that makes the game run smoother i'll probably play more idort

Quote from: UnagiPower on October 20, 2008, 02:46:31 PM
while i think my lag is due to crappy graphics card i am buying 512mb ram for $10 from my friend and if that makes the game run smoother i'll probably play more idort

That was my problem. Riosan got me to do something with the launch settings that made my ugly and laggy PC experience to be smooth and nice looking.

I'm thinking of hosting a Dedicated TF2 Server in the name of Boyah. Yay or nay?

Quote from: juicebox360 on November 08, 2008, 04:32:26 AM
I'm thinking of hosting a Dedicated TF2 Server in the name of Boyah. Yay or nay?

Sure, since I don't think anyone else is gonna make one at this point. ghouldood;

attract non-boyageans with rare or unusual maps y/n

Unfinished proposal of maps Lawlz and I came up with:

• ctf_snofort_final (can't find it on fpsb, but a few servers still play it)


• ctf_escherhaus


• cp_ohho


• cp_aerospace (not hosted on the server; too big)


• cp_hotelhell


• ctf_Tropical_island (not on fpsb as far as i know)


• tc_hydro (valvemap)


• koth_twisted


• tc_meridian


• balloon_race_b1


• ds_mysticruins


• ds_extractum

Snofort is enough to bring in Lawlz. spam;

maybe we can bring in some maps of our own ;)

More:

-cp_bedrooms3
-boxingv3 or melee_ringking

Quote from: Zidoneon on November 08, 2008, 06:12:11 PM
Unfinished proposal of maps Lawlz and I came up with:

• ctf_snofort_final (can't find it on fpsb, but a few servers still play it)


• ctf_escherhaus


• cp_ohho


• cp_aerospace (not hosted on the server; too big)


• cp_hotelhell


• ctf_Tropical_island (not on fpsb as far as i know)


• tc_hydro (valvemap)


• koth_twisted


• tc_meridian


• balloon_race_b1


• ds_mysticruins


• ds_extractum

Snofort is enough to bring in Lawlz. spam;

maybe we can bring in some maps of our own ;)

how about some cp+koth?

Quote from: noodle_976 on November 09, 2008, 04:29:08 PM
how about some cp+koth?

I haven't played on many koth maps (just twisted and rainbow).

Rainbow sucks butts, but Twisted is okay and small enough for the server. Before you call me an idiot for having Aerospace, Meridian and Hydro: CP_Aerospaceb3 is there mostly for novelty (it's fucking huge, no one plays it), Meridian because it's one of the few custom TC maps and I like it, Hydro because no one plays Hydro and there's no download.

As for capture point maps, what are some good customs you can think of? baddood;

Quote from: Zidoneon on November 09, 2008, 04:34:40 PM
Rainbow sucks butts, but Twisted is okay and small enough for the server.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Quote from: Zidoneon on November 09, 2008, 04:34:40 PM
As for capture point maps, what are some good customs you can think of? baddood;

ummm
cp_soar! YEAH! [/sarcasm]

COME ON PPLZ LET'S GET THIS THREAD MOVING! (well, it is but it's more like crawling or inching)

Anyhoo, to spark up some conversation, lets talk about Valve's next to-be class updates.

(I hope it's the engie, I could pwn in MARIO_KART.)


Oh btw gimme some suggestions of maps for the Boyah server pl0x. Zidone, lawls, and noodle, thanks for your submissions. I'll look over 'em

Uh oh, I haz double-posted... :(
EDIT: and I'm too lazy to merge    <---------------IRONY

I saw Bassir on 2f2f yesterday, lol


TRIPLE POST

I ought to be b&, again

Please excuse my absence. :|

In addition to maps, how about mods? We could get the throw mod (pick up and move sentry) and some admin mods like the ones on the GameFAQs servers. Also, RTD.

Maybe tf2nades and such. Perhaps melee-only, class restriction and loadout (i.e. all heavys have the KGB) mods for certain maps.

Quote from: Zidoneon on November 14, 2008, 04:02:21 PM
Please excuse my absence. :|

In addition to maps, how about mods? We could get the throw mod (pick up and move sentry) and some admin mods like the ones on the GameFAQs servers. Also, RTD.

Maybe tf2nades and such. Perhaps melee-only, class restriction and loadout (i.e. all heavys have the KGB) mods for certain maps.

Alright, I'll Google and d/l if time permits.

Quote from: Zidoneon on November 08, 2008, 06:12:11 PM

• ctf_Tropical_island (not on fpsb as far as i know)

Could you please provide me with a link for ctf_Tropical_island please?
And please don't Rickroll me. :p

EDIT: Just a little update Zidone - the grenade mod is STILL in private beta. soz :(
Sauce? Here, at the bottom of the page
http://www.tf2nades.com/plugin.html

EDIT#2: Okie dokie, I've decided to use SourceMod over BeetlesMod, even though I have more experience with BM. Yay or nay, Boyah?

EDIT#3: Disregard my first edit. I can and will put in the grenade modification for our server. Please yay or nay the idea. I'm d/l'ing the mod just in case.

Zidone, please PM me your Steam ID in Steam IM because I need to add you to the admin list.

To find your Steam ID, do this:

Join any public server, like 2fort2furious MARIO KART whatever
Open Console
Type "status" and then hit enter (no quotes)
find your name and copy the text starting with STEAM_ like the example id above.

Derived from:
http://ctagames.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=11442&pid=124420#pid124420

I'm not sure if I can get tropical island. The fairly generic name makes me think it's obscure, and I've only played it once on some French server. Can I send you the files I have for it? baddood;

Also, y/y for SourceMod and grenades.

Quote from: Zidoneon on November 17, 2008, 02:54:03 PM
I'm not sure if I can get tropical island. The fairly generic name makes me think it's obscure, and I've only played it once on some French server. Can I send you the files I have for it? baddood;

Also, y/y for SourceMod and grenades.

Thanks for your feedback.

Sure, why not. Please give me the files in your "maps" directory of tf. Thanks again!

I'm probably not going to be online tomorrow, so I'll get the map for you on Wednesday.

Any other maps you need?

No thanks, Zidone. I can get the others off FPSBanana so it can wait. Thanks anyhoo  :3

I'm updating the server right now, so the server should be up by this weekend (if I am lucky) or up by Thanksgiving Holidays.

Plugins:
* I'm still working on getting the grenade plugin to cooperate with the server since it just spews out a plethora of console errors saying that it can't find textures and stuff.

* The rtd (Roll-the-Dice) plugin has been successfully plugged-in to the server. Yays.

* I'm working on the melee idea, but here's a quick question for clarification:
               Do you want a "stalemate" round melee? Or a full-fledged round of melee?
If in fact it is the second statement I would suggest ARENA maps instead IMO but POWER TO TEH PPLZ so w/e.

* I have some crazy little plugins also installed, forgot what they were  goonish

Okie dokie, I'll create a new thread in the "Video Game Discussion" thread about the server when it's up.

IMA FIRING MAH LAZOR finish my English report and make sure I catch my forty winks for the day
Good night, USA. Good morning, everywhere else.

THE SERVER IS UP! :3

Earlier than planned, too! Yay for burning the midnight oil!

Link to thread:
http://boyah.net/forums/index.php/topic,41146.0.html

bumped for outsid

p.s. no xbox circle players are invited

Quote from: Zidoneon on December 04, 2008, 05:49:55 PM
bumped for outsid

p.s. no xbox circle players are invited

Too bad almost everyone from ootsid who played this (and actively posted about it) played the 360 version. doodthing;

Quote from: StarPilot on December 04, 2008, 11:08:27 PM
Too bad almost everyone from ootsid who played this (and actively posted about it) played the 360 version. doodthing;

o hi fellow 360 owner

Quote from: Hermione Granger on December 05, 2008, 12:46:25 PM
o hi fellow 360 owner

oh didn't c u guys here

Quote from: StarPilot on December 04, 2008, 11:08:27 PM
Too bad almost everyone from ootsid who played this (and actively posted about it) played the 360 version. doodthing;

well then you guys are maggots who don't get to play snofort on the boyah server and fall victim to my shenanigans saddood;

Quote from: Zidoneon on December 05, 2008, 02:35:55 PM
well then you guys are maggots who don't get to play snofort on the boyah server and fall victim to my shenanigans saddood;

I lol'd.

But seriously, Zidone can pull off the most random tricks/exploits you'll ever see.

Quote from: juicebox360 on December 06, 2008, 11:53:16 PM
I lol'd.

But seriously, Zidone can pull off the most random tricks/exploits you'll ever see.

such as stickyjumping across an entire map to bottle 2-4 people before they know what hit them baddood;

Quote from: Zidoneon on December 07, 2008, 12:06:33 AM
such as stickyjumping across an entire map to bottle 2-4 people before they know what hit them baddood;

wow if only we had that in the 360 version maybe then we'd finally have some fun  baddood;

hey you fuck heads i've never heard of these snofort maps i need to play more

how do you get on the Boyah server

Quote from: Brooks on December 07, 2008, 12:39:12 AM
wow if only we had that in the 360 version maybe then we'd finally have some fun  baddood;

you don't have maps that are big enough for massive, unobstructed stickyjumps nigger

in mario kart you can jump clean over to the other spawn with 2 stickies baddood;

Quote from: Bassir on December 07, 2008, 09:08:24 AM
hey you fuck heads i've never heard of these snofort maps i need to play more

snofort is lawlz's favorite map and quite a fine ctf map

Quote from: russell on December 07, 2008, 11:34:11 AM
how do you get on the Boyah server

it's down you maggot

That one huge map...what's it called? Snofort? It was really, really dark. I MEAN REALLY DARK LIKE THE COLOR OF THE DEMO's SKIN disregard that.

Sry the server is down guys. Some "finishing touches" are going on with it (maps, script plugins, etc) so I can get it up around next next week.

Anyone with experience in Hammer is welcome to post their maps. We host custom, creative maps. Well, Zidone has a say in it too. So does noodle (to some extent).

Speaking of you, noodle, I need your Steam ID so I can add you as admin.

Sry for being absent again. I was on MARIO_KART this whole night and finishing my homework.

Quote from: Zidoneon on December 07, 2008, 12:06:33 AM
such as stickyjumping across an entire map to bottle 2-4 people before they know what hit them baddood;

Yes, lol.

And then Goomba stomp. THAT IS EPIC

Coming 2009 (Valve Time):
-spy and engineer tweaks, upgradeable teleporters and dispensers and ammo-replenishment for the cloak
-SCOOT UPDATE FUCK YES

Quote from: juicebox360 on December 11, 2008, 02:27:03 AM
That one huge map...what's it called? Snofort? It was really, really dark. I MEAN REALLY DARK LIKE THE COLOR OF THE DEMO's SKIN disregard that.

Sry the server is down guys. Some "finishing touches" are going on with it (maps, script plugins, etc) so I can get it up around next next week.

Anyone with experience in Hammer is welcome to post their maps. We host custom, creative maps. Well, Zidone has a say in it too. So does noodle (to some extent).

Speaking of you, noodle, I need your Steam ID so I can add you as admin.

Sry for being absent again. I was on MARIO_KART this whole night and finishing my homework.

snowbridge_thallus_dxnight5
p.s. what sourcemod commands do we have, i.e. throw and such

Quote from: Zidoneon on December 11, 2008, 04:07:12 PM
Coming 2009 (Valve Time):
-spy and engineer tweaks, upgradeable teleporters and dispensers and ammo-replenishment for the cloak
-SCOOT UPDATE FUCK YESsnowbridge_thallus_dxnight5
p.s. what sourcemod commands do we have, i.e. throw and such

WHEN CAN I HAZ ENGIE UPDATE

EDIT:
Zidoneon, there are throw commands. For some reason it isn't working as well as I planned. I'll look into it a bit more.

Quote from: Terran SCV on December 11, 2008, 09:28:21 PM
WHEN CAN I HAZ ENGIE UPDATE

no

no

bad madood;

Quote from: Terran SCV on December 11, 2008, 09:28:21 PM
Zidoneon, there are throw commands. For some reason it isn't working as well as I planned. I'll look into it a bit more.

do we have anything else?
i.e. what will i see when i enter sm_help

Quote from: Zidoneon on December 12, 2008, 06:20:48 PM
no

no

bad madood;

saddood;
okay, okay.

Quote
do we have anything else?
i.e. what will i see when i enter sm_help

I do believe the command to see all the commands admins can use is available when you enter "cvarlist" and another one I don't remember. I'll get back to you on this.

Just realized this, Zidone:

While I was on MARIO_KART, I was infiltrating an engie base and I destroyed the sentry and the teleporter exit, and then I left the dispenser alone. Some stupid engineers came along and tried to destroy the dispenser. Where they that ignorant to realize that enemy dispensers replenish metal?

Anyways, besides that, Kakashi started to play on the server and then he sticky-blocked the door for a good 30 minutes.

i mean when you go to servers running sourcemod and enter "sm_help" in the console you'll see a list of things like throw and such akudood;

Quote from: Zidoneon on December 13, 2008, 10:14:09 AM
i mean when you go to servers running sourcemod and enter "sm_help" in the console you'll see a list of things like throw and such akudood;

Ohhh!
You mean a chat-based command, right?

Yes, I am pretty sure it is.

Quote from: Terran SCV on December 13, 2008, 10:29:54 AM
Ohhh!
You mean a chat-based command, right?

Yes, I am pretty sure it is.

okay
so what's listed in it akudood;

so uh I might buy it on the PC today since its only $10.

Server is up.

How do you join the server without using the "join game" thing when a friend is in it?

Also we should organise some planned matches, because I think enough Boyagers play to be worth it.

Add the IP of the server to your favorites.

Unfortunately, I don't remember what the current one is. It's not the one in the server thread, though. akudood;

Quote from: Bat Masterson on December 22, 2008, 08:19:24 PM
Unfortunately, I don't remember what the current one is. It's not the one in the server thread, though. akudood;

Oh yes it is. Yes it is.

okay so i installed tf2

what i do now

Quote from: ââ,,¢â€ Ezloââ,,¢â€  on December 25, 2008, 01:06:58 PM
okay so i installed tf2

what i do now

Install HLSS

Quote from: Terran SCV on December 25, 2008, 01:09:10 PM
Install HLSS

no u

so can i join this boyah server or w/e

Quote from: ââ,,¢â€ Ezloââ,,¢â€  on December 25, 2008, 01:17:26 PM
no u

I already have.

Quote from: ââ,,¢â€ Ezloââ,,¢â€  on December 25, 2008, 01:17:26 PM
so can i join this boyah server or w/e

No, it's down for maintenance  saddood;

oh ok

can you at least play with me to point out the things i need to do plz

Quote from: ââ,,¢â€ Ezloââ,,¢â€  on December 25, 2008, 02:01:18 PM
oh ok

can you at least play with me to point out the things i need to do plz

Sorry, I'm on Ubuntu

My little brother is hogging the Vista computer for MapleStory  madood;

Quote from: Terran SCV on December 25, 2008, 02:08:38 PM
Sorry, I'm on Ubuntu

My little brother is hogging the Vista computer for MapleStory  madood;

fux u

Quote from: ââ,,¢â€ Ezloââ,,¢â€  on December 25, 2008, 01:06:58 PM
okay so i installed tf2

what i do now

tell us your steam name akudood;

Quote from: ââ,,¢â€ Ezloââ,,¢â€  on December 25, 2008, 03:38:25 PM
fux u

Quote from: Zidone on December 25, 2008, 05:51:11 PM
tell us your steam name akudood;

Yes, so we can friend you. </irony>

Quote from: Hard Hatted Friend
CAUSE YOU'RE BLU THEN YOUR RED
YOU'RE ALIVE THEN YOU'RE DEAD (only applies to TFC, kiddos.)
YOU'RE SAPPIN' MAH STUFF
YOU THINK YOU'RE SO TOUGH
YOU BACKSTAB MY FRIENDS
UNTIL IT ALL ENDS
WE FIGHT WE BLOW UP (only applies when you have the explode plugin enabled) TEAMS SWITCH WE MAKE UP
YOU
YOU DON'T WANT TO STAY (NO)
YOU
YOU DON'T WANT TO GO (OH)

- A Blu Engie to a Red Spy.

Wait, how'd I remember how the song goes in the first place?

As seen here (http://boyah.net/forums/index.php/topic,41916.1950.html)

(http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/b85bf2c175cce7f8612ac14f54c41326.jpg)

damn horny demos

Quote from: w00terz on December 28, 2008, 04:23:14 PM


damn horny demos

FACT: Every time a demo dies, he has at least one hand on his crotch.

Quote from: Lawlz on December 28, 2008, 04:44:08 PM
FACT: Every time a demo dies, he has at least one hand on his crotch.

Hey, I just learned something new tonight, :3

THE SCOUT UPDATE:
Coming to a TF2 near you. thumbup;

Will probably be out a week from Friday. A minor update is comin' tomorrow.

Quote from: John Cena on January 27, 2009, 09:12:10 PM
...
A minor update is comin' tomorrow.

wut

Quote from: Terran SCV on January 28, 2009, 08:18:52 AM
wut

They fixed some minor stuff.
Cloaked spies can now sit on dispensers forever without anyone ever noticing. thumbup;
Damn pyro animation in the class select screen is back. thumbup;
Natascha's damage is fixed (it was 66% of Sasha, now it's 75%) and the slowdown is improved. thumbup;

Quote from: John Cena on January 28, 2009, 09:05:52 PM
Natascha's damage is fixed (it was 66% of Sasha, now it's 75%) and the slowdown is improved. thumbup;

no, that's awful

It was already overpowered

Quote from: Pancake Persona on January 29, 2009, 01:15:36 PM
no, that's awful

It was already overpowered

actually, it turns out they killed the slowdown srs

 Get on the freaking point dumbass.  baddood;

need a dispenser here

Quote from: Ezlo on February 01, 2009, 10:38:56 AM
need a dispenser here

gotta move that gear up

I

AM

ON

FIRE

 Did anyone else notice the silent update?  baddood;

Quote from: Baboon on February 03, 2009, 02:08:42 PM
Did anyone else notice the silent update?  baddood;

Yes, they've FINALLY added class limiters. You can access them through the console, I believe.

Quote from: Terran SCV on February 06, 2009, 08:43:36 PM
Yes, they've FINALLY added class limiters. You can access them through the console, I believe.

whoa what i don't remember this part
also does it let you do the double-class glitch akudood;

Quote from: BROSUKE on February 06, 2009, 09:14:32 PM
whoa what i don't remember this part
also does it let you do the double-class glitch akudood;

lolwut

Quote
New server features

    * Added ââ,¬Å"tf_damage_disablespreadââ,¬Â� convar to disable the 25% damage spread on all damage
    * Added class limit support to tournament mode
          o Set the ââ,¬Å"tf_tournament_classlimit_Xââ,¬Â� convars to the max number of class X allowed
    * Added ââ,¬Å"tf_tournament_hide_domination_iconsââ,¬Â� convar, that allows a tournament mode server to force clients not to display domination icons over their nemeses

Tournament mode? Never heard of it.

[spoiler]
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6955/ctf2fort0059nx9.png)[/spoiler]
i like those shoes n_u

Bonk! (http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/)

Melee weapon update = Sandman

Bludgeon enemies with a baseball to stun them then beat them to death with its splintery fury. The thing is too heavy for the Scout though, so say goodbye to your double jumping abilities when wielding this.

http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Force-A-Nature

Quote from: Baboon on February 21, 2009, 09:52:40 AM
http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Force-A-Nature

Yeah, I head about this yesterday.

also

need a dispenser here
need a dispenser here
need a dispenser here
need a dispenser here
need a dispenser here
need a dispenser here

Medic!

Quote from: Ezlo on February 21, 2009, 09:56:45 AM
need a dispenser here
need a dispenser here
need a dispenser here
need a dispenser here
need a dispenser here
need a dispenser here

gotta move that gear up
gotta move that gear up
gotta move that gear up
gotta move that gear up
gotta move that gear up
gotta move that gear up

Quote from: BROSUKE on February 21, 2009, 01:34:39 PM
gotta move that gear up
gotta move that gear up
gotta move that gear up
gotta move that gear up
gotta move that gear up
gotta move that gear up

bonk
bonk
bonk
bonk
bonk
bonk

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg22KVwV8wc[/youtube]
thumbup;

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8590/hotdog.jpg)
thumbup;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX__swbUwag&fmt=18[/youtube]

Shamwow reference at 0:20. baddood;

(http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7109/attackofthegmen.png)

So, hows that Scout update?

Quote from: Placebo Headwound on February 28, 2009, 11:29:33 AM
So, hows that Scout update?

gr8 if you have the items

damn terrible if you don't akudood;

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198005691764

Who is this and do I need to make the group private again? akudood;

so i finally got around to learning to use hammer and i've made two basic maps

also where the hell is juicebox

the server was up yesterday but he's nowhere to be seen befuddlement