I've never really been religious, and have considered myself agnostic for the last few years of my life, but after some solid critical thinking, I would definitely consider myself an atheist. I've also put some serious thought into the concept of death and nothingness, and the idea that our lives are just a small part of existence's timeline. And for a while I felt really fucking insignificant and unimportant. I've thought about it more, and decided that as long as I can live a happy life, my life will be worth living, but that still doesn't shake the feeling that once you die, everything is over.
How do you cope with this?
"It sucks, but hey, what can you do" is pretty much my general attitude towards it.
i have no reason to think about it
For me there isn't much to cope with. It is just something that will happen eventually. The fact that is an end and there is nothing after doesn't bother me.
And for the record I think it is perfectly ok to feel extremely insignificant and unimportant in the larger scheme of things. Most people aren't going to do anything with their life and even the one's who do are insignificant on a cosmic scale.
it's like it was before you were born
I like to frequently ponder all the different possibilities.
Even though I am pretty much an atheist, I still sometimes wonder if maybe my life will be repeated sometime, or if I will ever become a different consciousness in a different universe, or any crazy idea really.
It's better than being bound to one belief, or none at all.
This question is killing me.
I say that because it is a little contradictory. In any case, I have resigned myself to death, physically, and this is the only sane thing to do. I cannot will myself to live forever. I do not think much about it, in the after sense, I have settled and moved past that. I only think about my legacy. And the ones and things I leave behind. That is the thought that keeps from killing me. Therefore I want to live, I want to make and give, I want to cultivate, and pass on.
Sure there are concepts and ideas that embody and represent everything that begins and ends. But it has no conscience. We fit into it, and create it symbolically. In the end it is a messy state, and nothing has an order or purpose after that. It's best just to lay low and sleep alone.
If I die and I am unhappy, it's because I am greedy and wanted more. And that's not a bad way to die.
I completely ignore the thought of death. If it happens, it happens. Can't do anything about it after you've DIED. I just need to avoid it.
It's killing me because it's just not worth talking about. The fact that it interferes with our relationships between other human beings is what sickens me. People think one thing happens when you die, others think something else happens. They believe it. Stop giving a shit.
It's not something to avoid or fear, I view it simply as another birth.
I'm energy always
Quote from: vziard on July 13, 2011, 05:21:59 PM
It's not something to avoid or fear, I view it simply as another birth.
How so? I cannot possibly fathom some sort of afterlife, so how is it another birth? Unless you do expect some sort of afterlife to occur, in which case you should elaborate because I am interested.
I just do not fear it nor do I care.
I actively avoid death but I am not afraid of what happens when I die. baddood;
I don't understand how anyone can really be an athiest. How is not everyone agnostic?
Quote from: applesauce on July 16, 2011, 01:54:01 PM
I don't understand how anyone can really be an athiest. How is not everyone agnostic?
Because science.
But really, it isn't that hard to imagine. Why do you think everyone would be agnostic?
Quote from: Squid Girl on July 16, 2011, 02:10:35 PM
Because science.
But really, it isn't that hard to imagine. Why do you think everyone would be agnostic?
Because being athiest is really the same thing as being religious. Being athiest you are saying that you know everything. How can anyone say that? Being agnostic is acknowledging that you really don't know, and never will know, everything.
Quote from: applesauce on July 16, 2011, 03:21:07 PM
Being athiest you are saying that you know everything.
Wow, no. goowan
Quote from: Thyme on July 16, 2011, 03:54:03 PM
Wow, no. goowan
Dur, yes it is. Saying that you are confident that there is no intelligent force in the universe whatsoever and that our current scientific method can and for the most part has determined everything to an absolute is akin to saying that you understand pretty much everything about everything, and that you are capable of understanding absolutely everything, which is a pretty conceited worldview.
Quote from: applesauce on July 16, 2011, 04:02:12 PM
Saying that you are confident that there is no intelligent force in the universe whatsoever and that our current scientific method can and for the most part has determined everything to an absolute is akin to saying that you understand pretty much everything about everything
I don't understand that comparison. I really don't. Probably because it doesn't make any sense.
I'll be first to admit that I don't understand/know everything. That wouldn't only be conceited, that would be foolish. But I understand atheism. It's a fairly easy concept. And you obviously don't, because really, that's not it.
You know what, I'm not very good at this. I'll just wait for JMV to post a rebuttal.
Quote from: Thyme on July 16, 2011, 04:14:33 PM
I don't understand that comparison. I really don't. Probably because it doesn't make any sense.
I'll be first to admit that I don't understand/know everything. That wouldn't only be conceited, that would be foolish. But I understand atheism. It's a fairly easy concept. And you obviously don't, because really, that's not it.
You know what, I'm not very good at this. I'll just wait for JMV to post a rebuttal.
No, I don't understand it. I absolutely do not understand how an intelligent person can say they know, with certainty, that no force exists that it not understood by humans.
Quote from: applesauce on July 16, 2011, 03:21:07 PM
Because being athiest is really the same thing as being religious. Being athiest you are saying that you know everything. How can anyone say that? Being agnostic is acknowledging that you really don't know, and never will know, everything.
Clearly you know nothing about being an atheist.
It isn't saying you know everything. It is saying that you don't believe an age old story is actually true simply because you are told. It is simply not believing in something where there is no legitimate evidence to prove. I can't say for certain that there is no god, nor will I but in the end I simply don't believe in one or any.
Being agnostic is saying that you don't really know but you still believe there is a higher power. It isn't acknowledging you don't know everything, while claiming that you know there is a god.
i also refuse to claim i know whether or not unicorns, zeus, fairies, ogres, frost giants, and any other mythological beings exist or not.
ya thx clay
applesauce is right
Quote from: Squid Girl on July 16, 2011, 07:18:37 PM
Clearly you know nothing about being an atheist.
It isn't saying you know everything. It is saying that you don't believe an age old story is actually true simply because you are told. It is simply not believing in something where there is no legitimate evidence to prove. I can't say for certain that there is no god, nor will I but in the end I simply don't believe in one or any.
Congratulations, you're an agnostic atheist.
Quote
Being agnostic is saying that you don't really know but you still believe there is a higher power. It isn't acknowledging you don't know everything, while claiming that you know there is a god.
Um...no, there are different types of agnostic doodhuh; You can be an agnostic _____ (theist, deist, atheist, etc.) It goes along with any. You claim to not know everything, but you also can think there is or isn't.
Quote from: applesauce on July 16, 2011, 04:02:12 PM
Dur, yes it is. Saying that you are confident that there is no intelligent force in the universe whatsoever and that our current scientific method can and for the most part has determined everything to an absolute is akin to saying that you understand pretty much everything about everything, and that you are capable of understanding absolutely everything, which is a pretty conceited worldview.
Quote from: applesauce on July 16, 2011, 04:19:59 PM
No, I don't understand it. I absolutely do not understand how an intelligent person can say they know, with certainty, that no force exists that it not understood by humans.
I agree with every post you've made. thumbup;
i'm an agnostic. fuck you all. i'm spiritual and divine. the rest is cosmic wine.
Quote from: Squid Girl on July 16, 2011, 07:18:37 PM
I can't say for certain that there is no god, nor will I
That is called being agnostic.
Why do so many people fail to understand this? doodhuh;
And thank you for your help, wawi.
QuoteBeing agnostic is saying that you don't really know but you still believe there is a higher power.
Uh, no. Being agnostic is saying that you don't know. It's acknowledging that you don't, and probably never will, understand most things about life and the universe in general. Being agnostic has nothing to do with believing there is a higher power.
We were talking about the definition of atheist here, not agnostic. By definition, agnosticism has nothing to do with believing there is a higher power, sure, but atheism has everything to do with it, and only with it and nothing else. You don't believe in deities and it ends there. So the whole "atheists think they know everything" angle is bad&wrong and that's what's been annoying me about this whole issue.
It's not about knowing, it's about believing. You can call me an agnostic atheist if you want, and it would correspond pretty well with my believes, but in the end I'm still an atheist. Actually, if we want to take the labelling road, I may as well be an antireligious apatheistic agnostic atheist. But it's easier to just shorten it to atheist. I'd say that's what most atheists do, really.
Quote from: Thyme on July 16, 2011, 11:15:42 PM
We were talking about the definition of atheist here, not agnostic. By definition, agnosticism has nothing to do with believing there is a higher power, sure, but atheism has everything to do with it, and only with it and nothing else. You don't believe in deities and it ends there. So the whole "atheists think they know everything" angle is bad&wrong and that's what's been annoying me about this whole issue.
It's not about knowing, it's about believing. You can call me an agnostic atheist if you want, and it would correspond pretty well with my believes, but in the end I'm still an atheist. Actually, if we want to take the labelling road, I may as well be an antireligious apatheistic agnostic atheist. But it's easier to just shorten it to atheist. I'd say that's what most atheists do, really.
No, being an athiest means that you absolutely believe that there is no a higher power at all. Agnosticism is about disbelief, Atheism is about a belief in a lack of a higher power.
Quote from: applesauce on July 16, 2011, 11:18:46 PM
No, being an athiest means that you absolutely believe that there is no a higher power at all. Agnosticism is about disbelief, Atheism is about a belief in a lack of a higher power.
Yes. I don't think I said anything that went against that. confuseddood;
Quote from: Thyme on July 16, 2011, 11:25:13 PM
Yes. I don't think I said anything that went against that. confuseddood;
So you really believe that you understand how every part of the universe functions well enough to say, without a doubt, that there certainly is no intelligent force/something altogether different that humans don't understand?
Quote from: Squid Girl on July 16, 2011, 07:18:37 PM
I can't say for certain that there is no god, nor will I
Well, she did, at least.
Quote from: applesauce on July 16, 2011, 11:29:14 PM
So you really believe that you understand how every part of the universe functions well enough to say, without a doubt, that there certainly is no intelligent force/something altogether different that humans don't understand?
No, of course not. That would be retarded.
I can just say that I believe there is no
god. Which is good enough for most dictionary publishers and most people who aren't being anal like you are right now to call me an atheist.
I
could say that I'm certain there is no god, but that would be just me being bold. It gets the message across better.
lol echo is a guy
Quote from: Thyme on July 16, 2011, 11:39:24 PM
god
But how far do you extend that? A lot of people, including most people who are even somewhat reasonable, have a pretty wide view about what "god"could be.
i think that most people who assign themselves to a religion believe whatever that religion tells them "god" is supposed to be
Atheism is, by definition, a lack of belief in a deity. Agnosticism is the belief that you cannot know either way. That's it, nothing more.
Atheism is not a religion.
Applesauce, you're just trying to convert people to your point of view on the subject. What about theists? How can they know there's a god any better than an atheist can know there's not? Atheists find there is absolutely no reason to believe a god exists, just like there's no reason to believe in ghosts or that alien lizard people secretly run the world. Sure there's no way of knowing for sure, but it would be silly to think it was at all likely.
Quote from: Hiro on July 17, 2011, 02:06:12 AM
What about theists? How can they know there's a god any better than an atheist can know there's not?
Exactly. That's the point.
Paraphrasing the God Delusion:
Strong Theist: I do not question the existence of God, I KNOW he exists.
De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain but I strongly believe in God and I live my life on the assumption that he is there.
Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.
Pure Agnostic: God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.
Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.
De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life under the assumption that he is not there.
Strong Atheist: I am 100% sure that there is no God.
Most people lie within the 6th one.
Quote from: applesauce on July 16, 2011, 11:29:14 PM
So you really believe that you understand how every part of the universe functions well enough to say, without a doubt, that there certainly is no intelligent force/something altogether different that humans don't understand?
Well, she did, at least.
You are misinterpreting what I say. I have zero belief in a god or any god, but that doesn't mean I am going to run around screaming that I know with 100% certainty that there isn't one. I can do that while believing it is extremely improbable and not having an ounce of belief in any god.
Quote from: Hiro on July 17, 2011, 02:06:12 AM
Atheism is, by definition, a lack of belief in a deity. Agnosticism is the belief that you cannot know either way. That's it, nothing more.
Atheism is not a religion.
It's what you believe. There are different degrees. They overlap. Obviously it isn't a religion, but like I said, it's what you believe about the universe. That there isn't a god, gods, higher intelligence, etc.
QuoteDemographic research services normally do not differentiate between various types of non-religious respondents so agnostics end up in the same category as atheists and/or other non-religious people. Some sources use agnostic in the sense of noncommittal. Agnosticism often overlaps with other belief systems. Agnostic theists identify themselves both as agnostics and as followers of particular religions, viewing agnosticism as a framework for thinking about the nature of belief and their relation to revealed truths. Some nonreligious people, such as author Philip Pullman, identify as both agnostic and atheist.
Thomas Henry Huxley defined the term:
Agnosticism is not a creed but a method, the essence of which lies in the vigorous application of a single principle... Positively the principle may be expressed as in matters of intellect, do not pretend conclusions are certain that are not demonstrated or demonstrable.
Quote
Applesauce, you're just trying to convert people to your point of view on the subject. What about theists? How can they know there's a god any better than an atheist can know there's not? Atheists find there is absolutely no reason to believe a god exists, just like there's no reason to believe in ghosts or that alien lizard people secretly run the world. Sure there's no way of knowing for sure, but it would be silly to think it was at all likely.
I don't see him trying to
convert people to anything lol. You missed his whole point.
I'm with Applesauce
Yay I haven't been in one of these for a while
internet explorer died for your sins
doodthing is the only true higher power THE POWER OF GOD
After years of trying to convince myself that there is a God... Then trying to convince myself that the agnostic approach was better... I have thrown all of that out the window, and I've declared myself an...
THE POWER OF GOD ATHEIST THE POWER OF GOD
And I've never been happier. sillydood;
Oh, and I don't really care about the afterlife. I'd assume non-exsistence feels fine. It's pretty much the same as before I was born.
Maybe it is because I am still going to church, which I have done so my whole life, but I cannot shake off the feeling that there is some form of afterlife and/or god-being. Life is too asburd for their not to be 1 imho idk.
It's sad to see an interesting, worthwhile question like this degenerate into bickering over philosophical jargon (read over Thyme's posts, btw, for the right answer to this discussion). But oh well.
Quote from: Slim on July 17, 2011, 06:59:22 PM
It's sad to see an interesting, worthwhile question like this degenerate into bickering over philosophical jargon (read over Thyme's posts, btw, for the right answer to this discussion). But oh well.
The one about doodthing? Or one of the other ones? 'Cause there were a few and I didn't really retain any info reading through here.
Quote from: Live on July 17, 2011, 07:19:04 PM
The one about doodthing? Or one of the other ones? 'Cause there were a few and I didn't really retain any info reading through here.
the other ones, but the doodthing one is good too
so what if after we "die" we are woken up and it was all a computer simulation!?
what if u could dodge a bullet
I take the stance that arguing over the existence of god is pointless because there will never be an answer. If he does exist then he doesn't do much to help the world, so I don't give a fuck. If he's imaginary then I don't give a fuck. Bickering over it does nothing, therefore I don't give a fuck THE POWER OF GOD
Quote from: MF Doom on July 11, 2011, 12:22:01 PM
I've never really been religious, and have considered myself agnostic for the last few years of my life, but after some solid critical thinking, I would definitely consider myself an atheist. I've also put some serious thought into the concept of death and nothingness, and the idea that our lives are just a small part of existence's timeline. And for a while I felt really fucking insignificant and unimportant. I've thought about it more, and decided that as long as I can live a happy life, my life will be worth living, but that still doesn't shake the feeling that once you die, everything is over.
How do you cope with this?
What's wrong with it? What makes that in need of coping skills?
There are some people who are long dead but still seem to live forever. Nero, for example--he still has one-name recognition. As you look over your well-lived life, are you sure there are parts of it that *should* live on forever? I mean, the last person I want to be like is Nero. What I had in mind was more like Santa Claus, who started out as a small bishop but has attained a better sort of immortality.
Quote from: Nyerp on July 17, 2011, 09:34:08 PM
what if u could dodge a bullet
What if green apples were purple.
Quote from: Darth Wawi on July 17, 2011, 09:18:48 PM
so what if after we "die" we are woken up and it was all a computer simulation!?
Close.
We're a bunch of organized elemental molecules that will break up and become somebody else's parts eventually.
Quote from: MF Doom on July 15, 2011, 08:30:29 PM
How so? I cannot possibly fathom some sort of afterlife, so how is it another birth? Unless you do expect some sort of afterlife to occur, in which case you should elaborate because I am interested.
I think the false ideas of 'heaven' and 'afterlife' that get put in people's heads turn them off of the idea that individual consciousness can somehow transcend earthly existence, but I'm somewhat sure that this happens. Yes I am no better than the average theist, but I have found evidence to believe that a dynamic energy which is uniquely mine inhabits my body, and has the ability to go to other places (I wo uld use a term like creative intuition instead of 'soul' or 'spirit'). Other places are all inside my own head and my own psychology, but so is the world each of us creates for ourselves -- is it really outside of you and objectively separate? Or are your senses creating a virtual image from limitless waves fluctuating around in hyperspace for the sake of your understanding?
So I think the question 'what happens when you die' implies a little too much about the nature of reality. I do not expect to literally be 'rebirthed', or even to 'die'. I am alive with Universe as I always will be, and so can you!!!
(http://i.imgur.com/Tdmo6.jpg)
lol
Ghostic Atheist
Quote from: Ruka Urushibara on July 16, 2011, 02:10:35 PM
Because science.
I'm pretty sure that's not how science works.
i hold the belief that since 'nothing' can't exist then a nothingness afterlife, by similar logic, can't exist.
Not a nothingness afterlife, just nothingness. Nothingness exists as itself. Lack of something or being. It is a somewhat disturbing thought to many that after so many experiences that it all ends rather anti-climatically...
I mean you wouldn't even get to see the high scores list and how you stacked up
death means i can finally be free from everything because i'll never ever have to use emotion or cognition again giggle;
Quote from: Clucky on October 23, 2011, 10:49:11 PM
death means i can finally be free from everything because i'll never ever have to use emotion or cognition again giggle;
So what do you live for
Quote from: Yip Yipper on October 23, 2011, 10:53:56 PM
So what do you live for
expression
LOL BUT IT ISN'T WHAT I LONG FOR BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS
Quote from: Yip Yipper on October 23, 2011, 10:26:03 PM
Not a nothingness afterlife, just nothingness. Nothingness exists as itself. Lack of something or being. It is a somewhat disturbing thought to many that after so many experiences that it all ends rather anti-climatically...
I mean you wouldn't even get to see the high scores list and how you stacked up
I think the hobbit is right, no-thingness can't exist because it necessarily begets thingness. Do you see no-thingness anywhere? The entire universe and the infinity of universes beyond it are rippling with space and energy. No-thingness can, in a way, exist, but only completely outside of thingness in an abstract way. It would be petty to think that something amazing and different happens for a human consciousness, i.e., transferring into the abstract no-thingness outside of everything, because nothing else seems to do this.
So, the question to me is, does a mind occupy the physical limits of the brain or does it occupy someplace that all brains occupy? There are valid reasons to believe either, but I tend toward the latter because it can be seen that all of space occupies the higher space that all other spaces also occupy (think cosmological homotopy).
Quote from: vziard on October 24, 2011, 12:07:18 AM
I think the hobbit is right, no-thingness can't exist because it necessarily begets thingness. Do you see no-thingness anywhere? The entire universe and the infinity of universes beyond it are rippling with space and energy. No-thingness can, in a way, exist, but only completely outside of thingness in an abstract way. It would be petty to think that something amazing and different happens for a human consciousness, i.e., transferring into the abstract no-thingness outside of everything, because nothing else seems to do this.
Semantics. Saying the same thing with a pointless philosophical argument. I am merely saying there would be no conscious recognition of the nothingness, you are dead, there is no awareness.
Unless I am confused by his terminology "nothingness afterlife" which would seem to suggest awareness of some sort of void.
I just don't buy the whole argument of 'complete lack of awareness seems incomprehensible, because it is -- the human mind can't comprehend a complete lack of awareness.'
Isn't that exactly the same argument as Tertullian's 'I believe in the impossible simply because it is impossible'?
[spoiler]also it wasn't a purely semantic argument I was illustrating clear concepts akudood;[/spoiler]
Quote from: vziard on October 24, 2011, 12:59:47 AM
I just don't buy the whole argument of 'complete lack of awareness seems incomprehensible, because it is -- the human mind can't comprehend a complete lack of awareness.'
Isn't that exactly the same argument as Tertullian's 'I believe in the impossible simply because it is impossible'?
Does human comprehension of nothingness affect its status though? I don't know that it is incomprehensible to begin with either considering humans essentially come from nothingness or cannot remember a state of being from before conception/birth
Quote from: Yip Yipper on October 24, 2011, 01:06:21 AM
Does human comprehension of nothingness affect its status though? I don't know that it is incomprehensible to begin with either considering humans essentially come from nothingness or cannot remember a state of being from before conception/birth
If human comprehension of nothingness doesn't affect the status of nothingness, then you're differentiating human consciousness from the 'consciousness' (or lack thereof) of everything else, which would seem to be a hole in your own theory. In other words, no, human consciousness doesn't affect the status of nothingness, we perceive it the same way everything else does: as not there, because it's outside of everything that exists and therefore negligible.
Speaking about where humans 'come from' implies a dissection of the definition of time, which has been shown to be completely relative. To an observer existing right now on a faraway planet, you may not have been born yet. Where does that leave you? Unborn, or born as you are in this moment? Both are 'this moment'; it's ultimately your individual perspective that makes the difference. But what if your perspective changed, and the body remained in place? This is close to a definition of 'death'.
A more physically grounded metaphor would be that we are traveling through successive frames of time in a tube, as we do in 3-dimensional existence. Outside the tube, in a 'higher dimension', lies the realm of whole and undivided events, thoughts, and consciousnesses. What we experience inside the tube are actually only fragments of the whole events and thoughts; in this way our bodily consciousness is also only a 'fragment', or projection, of the 'whole' consciousness. We experience different fragments in successive moments of time. Temporality is necessary in 3 dimensions, but not in those higher, meaning the whole events/processes and consciousnesses as they exist in the 'higher dimension' are atemporal.
Quote from: vziard on October 24, 2011, 01:32:05 AM
In other words, no, human consciousness doesn't affect the status of nothingness, we perceive it the same way everything else does: as not there, because it's outside of everything that exists and therefore negligible.
Exactly... And some believe that is what death represents, the end of existence altogether.
Quote from: vziard on October 24, 2011, 01:32:05 AM
Speaking about where humans 'come from' implies a dissection of the definition of time, which has been shown to be completely relative.
Since when does "come from" imply time? It implies "where," or a place or source (or lack thereof). I have no interest in time.
Honestly it doesn't matter because what follows death is ultimately a mystery to the living and it will inevitably be answered of its own accord
Quote from: Yip Yipper on October 24, 2011, 01:44:29 AM
Exactly... And some believe that is what death represents, the end of existence altogether.Since when does "come from" imply time? It implies "where," or a place or source (or lack thereof). I have no interest in time.
Honestly it doesn't matter because what follows death is ultimately a mystery to the living and it will inevitably be answered of its own accord
doodhuh;
Quote from: vziard on October 24, 2011, 01:55:37 AM
doodhuh;
I don't understand you either. Why overcomplicate things
Quote from: Yip Yipper on October 24, 2011, 01:58:22 AM
I don't understand you either. Why overcomplicate things
Because pursuit of knowledge is the point of life. You can say, 'the meaning of death is impossible for us to discern, so let's wait til the question is answered of its own accord', but that doesn't make for a very long sci-fi novel, does it?
Quote from: vziard on October 24, 2011, 02:13:31 AM
Because pursuit of knowledge is the point of life. You can say, 'the meaning of death is impossible for us to discern, so let's wait til the question is answered of its own accord', but that doesn't make for a very long sci-fi novel, does it?
Possibly, but all that knowledge won't necessarily matter much when you're dead girl;
Life is what you make of it, if you seek knowledge, by all means continue... Sure imagining (ie what comes after death) is fun, but it won't create any more of a concrete conclusion and in the end is just daydreaming. Not that daydreaming can't be entertaining (sci-fi).
Quote from: Yip Yipper on October 24, 2011, 02:26:05 AM
Possibly, but all that knowledge won't necessarily matter much when you're dead girl;
Life is what you make of it, if you seek knowledge, by all means continue... Sure imagining (ie what comes after death) is fun, but it won't create any more of a concrete conclusion and in the end is just daydreaming. Not that daydreaming can't be entertaining (sci-fi).
So then what knowledge does matter when I'm dead? If none, what am I doing? (I'm not looking for an answer to these questions.) Everything you're saying is ad hoc reasoning that doesn't lead anywhere because your only answer is 'it doesn't matter'. Well of course the fucking nature of existence and death matter, how has science ever gotten anywhere without regard for it? There
are tangible answers to questions about human purpose and death, you're just taught that they're impossible to answer because impossibilities imply god (ironic in this situation).
[spoiler]If you want to understand this, do mushrooms, if you want proof, do DMT. Yeah, yeah, it's just drugs, and earth is just a big rock in space.[/spoiler]
... I've done mushrooms, you assume too much.
And I don't see why you're getting so upset because this isn't even my belief I'm representing. I'm saying certain people believe in nothingness after death. Which is fine, that's their opinion. In that case knowledge is completely worthless once you are dead. Science doesn't have much to do with the afterlife... death, sure. If you think there are definite answers to human purpose and the afterlife then you are a very silly person and extremely closed-minded. But if you have the answer, I'm sure humankind would love to hear it. A revelation at last!
Quote from: Yip Yipper on October 24, 2011, 03:37:41 AM
... I've done mushrooms, you assume too much.
And I don't see why you're getting so upset because this isn't even my belief I'm representing. I'm saying certain people believe in nothingness after death. Which is fine, that's their opinion. In that case knowledge is completely worthless once you are dead. Science doesn't have much to do with the afterlife... death, sure. If you think there are definite answers to human purpose and the afterlife then you are a very silly person and extremely closed-minded. But if you have the answer, I'm sure humankind would love to hear it. A revelation at last! Bim!
I'm not upset, I just use the word fucking a lot... what exactly is your personal belief then, if not 'it doesn't matter because what follows death is ultimately a mystery to the living and it will inevitably be answered of its own accord'? It seems very silly to me to impose a limit on yourself in abstract thought... 'that question is impossible to answer, so I might as well not even try.' Did cavemen conceive of electricity or even constructed buildings, to use a horridly simple analogy? Why
not push the envelope, because it takes effort?
How is it closed-minded to believe there could be answers to apparently unanswerable questions, but it's open-minded to believe firmly that there are some questions that absolutely cannot be answered?
It's not about what each person 'makes of life', it's about searching for meaning in every facet of life... maybe your belief is that your life, mainly, is meaningless? That you exist to further the evolution of the human species and not much else?
[spoiler]So what did you think of mushrooms then? Cool trippy shit? Nothing deep, nothing profound, not even a whisper about your deepest insecurities?[/spoiler]
Quote from: vziard on October 24, 2011, 04:00:38 AM
I'm not upset, I just use the word fucking a lot... what exactly is your personal belief then, if not 'it doesn't matter because what follows death is ultimately a mystery to the living and it will inevitably be answered of its own accord'? It seems very silly to me to impose a limit on yourself in abstract thought... 'that question is impossible to answer, so I might as well not even try.' Did cavemen conceive of electricity or even constructed buildings, to use a horridly simple analogy? Why not push the envelope, because it takes effort?
How is it closed-minded to believe there could be answers to apparently unanswerable questions, but it's open-minded to believe firmly that there are some questions that absolutely cannot be answered?
It's not about what each person 'makes of life', it's about searching for meaning in every facet of life... maybe your belief is that your life, mainly, is meaningless? That you exist to further the evolution of the human species and not much else?
[spoiler]So what did you think of mushrooms then? Cool trippy shit? Nothing deep, nothing profound, not even a whisper about your deepest insecurities?[/spoiler]
Oh, that doesn't limit abstract thought at all... I know I am more likely than not to be wrong in whatever conclusion I draw, but that doesn't prevent me from thinking about it from time to time. I would just never argue or defend that belief much because anyone's guess is as good as mine.
That's not closed minded, but to definitively say the meaning of life is "x" or "knowledge" is a bit much. Perhaps for you that is true, but to another maybe they define their life much differently.
Oh psh, like I care about the human species n_u I don't see why a person can't define his own path as he sees fit. Perhaps meaning isn't as important to everyone as it is to you. I honestly don't put much investment in any sort of meaning for life, I just roll with the punches
[spoiler]Well mushrooms were slightly terrifying in that my one friend believed he was in hell and had his life flash before his eyes every half minute for about 4 hours... but for me personally there was a really intense internal dialogue going on that just refused to stop. Not that it's that out of the ordinary, but the voice was much louder than it normally is[/spoiler]
Quote from: Yip Yipper on October 24, 2011, 04:14:30 AM
Oh, that doesn't limit abstract thought at all... I know I am more likely than not to be wrong in whatever conclusion I draw, but that doesn't prevent me from thinking about it from time to time. I would just never argue or defend that belief much because anyone's guess is as good as mine.
That's not closed minded, but to definitively say the meaning of life is "x" or "knowledge" is a bit much. Perhaps for you that is true, but to another maybe they define their life much differently.
Oh psh, like I care about the human species n_u I don't see why a person can't define his own path as he sees fit. Perhaps meaning isn't as important to everyone as it is to you. I honestly don't put much investment in any sort of meaning for life, I just roll with the punches
[spoiler]Well mushrooms were slightly terrifying in that my one friend believed he was in hell and had his life flash before his eyes every half minute for about 4 hours... but for me personally there was a really intense internal dialogue going on that just refused to stop. Not that it's that out of the ordinary, but the voice was much louder than it normally is[/spoiler]
You're more likely than not to be wrong in your conclusion, yet everyone can define his own path as he sees fit. So which one is it?!
(I'm not posing any answers, just my own thoughts. Of course anyone can define his own truths, that's what life is about, that's what I'm saying. What are we supposed to do if not talk about ideas? Watch sports? I hate this about people.)
What good does 'rolling with the punches' do anyone? You can go out to your field every day and see what fruits are there, work a little in one place one day, another place another day, sporadic like, and content yourself with the scraggly little shit fruits at the end; or, you can spend a lot of fucking time and effort creating the best possible system to produce tomatoes just how you like em, fat n juicy. Your life isn't a passive thing where whatever happens, happens and you can just slide along doing whatever. You
could, but no one who does that is actually happy. You are always risen from the seeds you've sown, boy, we're here to raise a world, not slip through life with minimal friction.
Quote from: vziard on October 24, 2011, 04:52:38 AM
You're more likely than not to be wrong in your conclusion, yet everyone can define his own path as he sees fit. So which one is it?! Bim!
(I'm not posing any answers, just my own thoughts. Of course anyone can define his own truths, that's what life is about, that's what I'm saying. What are we supposed to do if not talk about ideas? Watch sports? I hate this about people.)
What good does 'rolling with the punches' do anyone? You can go out to your field every day and see what fruits are there, work a little in one place one day, another place another day, sporadic like, and content yourself with the scraggly little shit fruits at the end; or, you can spend a lot of fucking time and effort creating the best possible system to produce tomatoes just how you like em, fat n juicy. Your life isn't a passive thing where whatever happens, happens and you can just slide along doing whatever. You could, but no one who does that is actually happy. You are always risen from the seeds you've sown, boy, we're here to raise a world, not slip through life with minimal friction.
Both? You're free to be wrong, there's no shame in that befuddlement
You're free to talk about your ideas but you sort of lay them out as fact. Life IS this. Etc. That doesn't sound like a personal definition but a general one you're imposing.
Perhaps someone likes to grow fruit for a living. They have no other desire than to grow those great fruits. Not much pursuit of knowledge is required for them to be happy in that case. A nomad can be content wandering the plains and hunting. A business man can play by the rules, work hard, and make money. Snorkel can do drugs and philosophize with his girlfriend on how they have it all figured out. Whatever floats your boat dude. I'm just here to enjoy the experience, I don't have to have it all figured out quite yet. You can feel bad for me if you want, I don't really care girl;
Quote from: Yip Yipper on October 24, 2011, 05:00:46 AM
Both? You're free to be wrong, there's no shame in that befuddlement
You're free to talk about your ideas but you sort of lay them out as fact. Life IS this. Etc. That doesn't sound like a personal definition but a general one you're imposing.
Perhaps someone likes to grow fruit for a living. They have no other desire than to grow those great fruits. Not much pursuit of knowledge is required for them to be happy in that case. A nomad can be content wandering the plains and hunting. A business man can play by the rules, work hard, and make money. Snorkel can do drugs and philosophize with his girlfriend on how they have it all figured out. Whatever floats your boat dude. I'm just here to enjoy the experience, I don't have to have it all figured out quite yet. You can feel bad for me if you want, I don't really care girl;
That's still exactly what I'm saying, 'knowledge' in the broadest sense of the term, not exclusively technical knowledge. Don't think I think I 'have it all figured out', I don't pretend to... just sharing thoughts, isn't that the point of discussion? I'm sorry if it seemed like I was trying to impose anything. We've digressed very far from the original topic, but the only thing I
am trying to impose upon anyone is that ideas have value in themselves, they're not just airy things to talk about. The 'answers' to questions brought up by the thought of death, though they're not concrete things with physical applications in life, can lead to unexpected realms of thought. I certainly wouldn't know what they are.
UNLEASH THE BEAST