Poll
Question:
Is being Gay a choice or a genetic trait/defect?
Option 1: A Choice
votes: 3
Option 2: Genetic Trait/Defect
votes: 6
Option 3: Enviromental Factor
votes: 12
Personally, I think being gay is somewhat of a mix between how you were brought up/your early age enviroment and a choice. I haven't seen any firm studies showing that homosexuality can be linked to genetics, and that leads me to believe the former. What do you think?
Edit: I added a new choice.
Hmm well i never made the choice to be gay.
So its all up to nature and nurture now.
The ongoing debate.
It's not a choice, but I also don't think there's such thing as a "gay" gene baddood;
I don't know what it is...
If it was entirely environmental, you'd get not as many closeted, frightened folks from intolerant places (the Sout') as you do. The environment is harder to study for, though. It's true that there are far more queers in cities, and that's not just because of uban/suburban migration patterns.
Still, it's based on who people are. So 80% nature, 20% nurture is a safe bet.
Is being straight a choice?
No...
Yes.
Is being black a choice?
No.
Quote from: JMV on November 15, 2009, 09:31:18 AM
Is being straight a choice?
No. Don't you have a natural attraction to the opposite sex?
Quote from: Nathan on November 15, 2009, 09:50:27 AM
No. Don't you have a natural attraction to the opposite sex?
Define natural.
If natural means the probable sexuality, then sure.
Well natural as?
Because naturally im prone to find guys attractive which means im gay. haha.
Quote from: JMV on November 15, 2009, 09:31:18 AM
Is being straight a choice?
Being straight is the basic framework of evolution. We're only on this earth to reproduce with women.
Quote from: Alyssa the Glowing Sole on November 15, 2009, 09:30:49 AM
If it was entirely environmental, you'd get not as many closeted, frightened folks from intolerant places (the Sout') as you do. The environment is harder to study for, though. It's true that there are far more queers in cities, and that's not just because of uban/suburban migration patterns.
Still, it's based on who people are. So 80% nature, 20% nurture is a safe bet.
Homosexuality seems to breed from intolerance. That's why you'll find that almost half the male population of Barbados is Gay-and rising. It's something about the oppressive, overly religious conditions in places like that where homosexuality seems to grow and multiply like a fungus.
That kind of generalization can't be made.
Quote from: Title on November 15, 2009, 10:05:02 AM
Being straight is the basic framework of evolution. We're only on this earth to reproduce with women.
I'm glad you feel that you have a purpose in life, however fucked up it is.
QuoteHomosexuality seems to breed from intolerance. That's why you'll find that almost half the male population of Barbados is Gay-and rising. It's something about the oppressive, overly religious conditions in places like that where homosexuality seems to grow and multiply like a fungus.
Interesting, but totally wrong. Queer persons get the least crap about who they are in the cities, and the cities tend to have the highest queer populations. This isn't just a matter of safety; the amount of queer persons born is higher in more metropolitan areas...and by extension (and by data), more developed countries. There's a reason Thailand has the largest population of transpersons in the world, and it's not because it's particurally oppressive against who they are.
And where the FUCK are you getting 50% and up?
Quote from: Alyssa the Glowing Sole on November 15, 2009, 10:10:14 AM
I'm glad you feel that you have a purpose in life, however fucked up it is.
From a biological perspective, Title is actually right in this aspect. awdood;
did you ever think that homosexuality is natures evolutionary sort of way to gaurd against overpopulation?
which isn't doing a very good job, just stating how thats a different way to view it.
Quote from: justjack on November 15, 2009, 10:24:55 AM
did you ever think that homosexuality is natures evolutionary sort of way to gaurd against overpopulation?
which isn't doing a very good job, just stating how thats a different way to view it.
Hmm, interesting idea befuddlement
I think it could be plausible. or how its existance would make sense just because there is an opposite to nearly everything in this world.
Quote from: justjack on November 15, 2009, 10:24:55 AM
did you ever think that homosexuality is natures evolutionary sort of way to gaurd against overpopulation?
which isn't doing a very good job, just stating how thats a different way to view it.
Well, if we were "evolving" into homosexuality (the select few of us), wouldn't the gene for this trait have died out with the people?
No. Its an ongoing thing that will never completely engulf the population, or completely die down.
It will be something that will just vary, like being left handed or something.
Quote from: justjack on November 15, 2009, 10:32:54 AM
No. Its an ongoing thing that will never completely engulf the population, or completely die down.
It will be something that will just vary, like being left handed or something.
Hmmm. I guess it could be more apparent, but societal norms restrict it, although it's been getting more and more accepted nowadays.
I lean towards it being a genetic trait, or at least somehow affected in a subtle way that defies choice.
Quote from: Alyssa the Glowing Sole on November 15, 2009, 10:10:14 AM
Interesting, but totally wrong. Queer persons get the least crap about who they are in the cities, and the cities tend to have the highest queer populations.
Must be all that fluoride in the water
Uhh... just because something may be genetic does not grant it any positive standing. It is at best an anomaly. Sickle cell is genetic too. It does not mean however that we need to promote it and celebrate its cause as a condition among people.
Quote from: Socks on November 15, 2009, 11:05:10 AM
Uhh... just because something may be genetic does not grant it any positive standing. It is at best an anomaly. Sickle cell is genetic too. It does not mean however that we need to promote it and celebrate its cause as a condition among people.
At least it prevents malaria
Quote from: YPR on November 15, 2009, 11:07:14 AM
At least it prevents malaria
and kills black people
Quote from: Socks on November 15, 2009, 11:10:08 AM
and kills black people
I wonder if that kid from Make A Wish on ESPN with sickle cell is still alive
prolly not
I think it's entirely environmental. I'll leave it at that.
Quote from: Socks on November 15, 2009, 11:05:10 AM
Uhh... just because something may be genetic does not grant it any positive standing. It is at best an anomaly. Sickle cell is genetic too. It does not mean however that we need to promote it and celebrate its cause as a condition among people.
Yes. But last time I checked, those with sickle-cell anaemia aren't persecuted for having it.
Quote from: ДавиÌд on November 15, 2009, 11:49:53 AM
Yes. But last time I checked, those with sickle-cell anaemia aren't persecuted for having it.
That is largely a function of societal environmental factors, which is a very complex set of conditions. And I am not advocating persecution; only understanding and remedy (if possible). Still, you don't see too many people with sickle cell being satisfied with their predicament.
And there is always the idea of Eugenics, as far as sickle cell and all other 'deficiencies' are concerned.
There was something on the Colbert Report once with this guy that was talking about how some male fish and frogs are gaining more feminine features due to the content of the water... Perhaps it has something to do with homosexuality as well, i don't know... I feel like there should be some sort of explanation as to why some people have certain traits
are you relating homosexuals to feminine fish?
lol
Quote from: justjack on November 15, 2009, 12:28:46 PM
are you relating homosexuals to feminine fish?
lol
Well not exactly but there are people with gender identity issues... it seems like there's more mention of homosexuality than at any point before in history, but I could very well be biased in that regard due to the prevalence of media attention upon the subject. Does anyone have any information on that sort of thing?
Thats probably right.
But i'm pretty sure it existed far before any of this.
Quote from: justjack on November 15, 2009, 12:43:39 PM
Thats probably right.
But i'm pretty sure it existed far before any of this.
I know it existed, but has the proportion changed at all?
Well i think it has always existed in the same proportion just not so open.
Quote from: justjack on November 15, 2009, 10:32:54 AM
No. Its an ongoing thing that will never completely engulf the population, or completely die down.
It will be something that will just vary, like being left handed or something.
wait, being left handed is genetic?
Yes it is genetic
Quote from: Title on November 15, 2009, 10:05:02 AM
Being straight is the basic framework of evolution. We're only on this earth to reproduce with women.
Homosexuality seems to breed from intolerance. That's why you'll find that almost half the male population of Barbados is Gay-and rising. It's something about the oppressive, overly religious conditions in places like that where homosexuality seems to grow and multiply like a fungus.
Explain homosexual behavior in animals.
Quote from: JMV on November 15, 2009, 01:06:38 PM
Explain homosexual behavior in animals.
water duh
Lol nice rebuttal but a little late.
LOL water.
Explains feminine fish too
...
And vitamin water
Quote from: JMV on November 15, 2009, 01:22:22 PM
And vitamin water
Lots and lots of vitamin water...
Its a Choice. I drink plenty of water and I haven't changed my sexuality.
[spoiler]But I'm still a virgin. >.<[/spoiler]
Quote from: justjack on November 15, 2009, 10:32:54 AM
No. Its an ongoing thing that will never completely engulf the population, or completely die down.
It will be something that will just vary, like being left handed or something.
Haha. :)
Genes that prevent reproduction generally die out of the population rather quickly. Genes that promote survival and reproduction stick around. Being left handed doesn't really affect survival or reproduction, so it isn't a factor in natural selection... But I'm not sure if they have even proven that left handedness is entirely genetic either...
Anyways, I definitely don't think it's a choice. I chose to love women.. But it didn't work. I'm still gay...
*shrug*
One of my professors has been doing research on gay sheep for a long time. She swears it's actually genetic because she has found physiological differences in the brains of gay sheep and straight sheep. I haven't looked into the research, so I can't say anything specific...
Quote from: Hippo P. Otamus on November 15, 2009, 04:06:28 PM
One of my professors has been doing research on gay sheep for a long time. She swears it's actually genetic because she has found physiological differences in the brains of gay sheep and straight sheep. I haven't looked into the research, so I can't say anything specific...
That doesn't necessarily imply genetic causes though. Factors in the development of the fetus(hormone levels, temperature, food, etc) can also effect the brain of the fetus.
Pregnant smokers (http://www.babycenter.com/0_how-smoking-during-pregnancy-affects-you-and-your-baby_1405720.bc)
Zinc and/or alcohol intake (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090202174452.htm)
and several others have exemplified this.
Sigh... I wasn't implying water changes sexuality i was merely saying chemicals can mess with genes with prolonged exposure over generations and generations
Quote from: YPR on November 15, 2009, 04:45:29 PM
Sigh... I wasn't implying water changes sexuality i was merely saying chemicals can mess with genes with prolonged exposure over generations and generations
Its okay
I believe it can be either genetic, environmental, or a mix of both.
Because there is a big difference between gender differences and sexuality differences, and gender is what is shaped by society. There are plenty of flamboyant straight guys, and body-builder gay guys.
Also there is the concept of DNA problems like a "male" having an XY chromosome, but their body not responding to testosterone. I don't see why it can't have something to do with that.
Quote from: Selkie on November 16, 2009, 02:26:23 AM
I believe it can be either genetic, environmental, or a mix of both.
Because there is a big difference between gender differences and sexuality differences, and gender is what is shaped by society. There are plenty of flamboyant straight guys, and body-builder gay guys.
Also there is the concept of DNA problems like a "male" having an XY chromosome, but their body not responding to testosterone. I don't see why it can't have something to do with that.
What, like Klinefelter's? Although that's XXY.
who made the poll is a better question :|
Quote from: Nathan on November 16, 2009, 09:57:05 AM
Since when was I a homophobe?
since you said you don't like gays akudood;
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 10:22:00 AM
since you said you don't like gays akudood;
When did he say that?
Quote from: justjack on November 16, 2009, 10:24:21 AM
When did he say that?
Quote from: Nathan on January 06, 2008, 07:58:03 AM
I could care less how offended you are. Really.
I just cant stand gays. Go find a treehugger who cares.
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 10:22:00 AM
since you said you don't like gays akudood;
I don't care anymore.
Quote from: Nathan on November 16, 2009, 10:41:07 AM
I don't care anymore.
Then don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about with your "since when?". wariodood;
Quote from: Nathan on November 16, 2009, 10:41:35 AM
lol 2008?
"i haven't raped a woman since 1990 so i'm not a rapist"
You asked "since when" I was showing when you said you don't like gays. doodhuh;
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 10:22:00 AM
since you said you don't like gays akudood;
Whoa, whoa, whoa, I am no homophobe, I just think gays are disgusting.
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 10:42:31 AM
Then don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about with your "since when?". wariodood;"i haven't raped a woman since 1990 so i'm not a rapist"
That's a horrible analogy. Opinions can change over time, while things you've done in the past cannot. akudood;
Well i don't care im cool:D
...not cocky
Quote from: Hïro on November 16, 2009, 10:51:53 AM
That's a horrible analogy. Opinions can change over time, while things you've done in the past cannot. akudood;
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=rapist
rapist (someone who forces another to have sexual intercourse)
I no longer force sexual intercource. akudood;
And he said "since when"
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 10:54:43 AM
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=rapist
rapist (someone who forces another to have sexual intercourse)
I no longer force sexual intercource. akudood;
And he said "since when"
Well 2008 now.
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 10:54:43 AM
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=rapist
rapist (someone who forces another to have sexual intercourse)
I no longer force sexual intercource. akudood;
And he said "since when"
So because he once disliked gays, he will always dislike gays? akudood;
Quote from: Hïro on November 16, 2009, 11:01:10 AM
So because he once disliked gays, he will always dislike gays? akudood;
Because he made a homophobic comment and then pretended he didn't.
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 11:02:26 AM
Because he made a homophobic comment and then pretended he didn't.
Maybe he like buried his old self and became a new mippo
Quote from: justjack on November 16, 2009, 11:03:56 AM
Maybe he like buried his old self and became a new mippo
Then he doesn't have to act like he didn't make a comment like that with "since when?'
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 11:05:33 AM
Then he doesn't have to act like he didn't make a comment like that with "since when?'
But what if he surpressed all memories and didn't even remember that?
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 10:42:31 AM
Then don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about with your "since when?". wariodood;"i haven't raped a woman since 1990 so i'm not a rapist"
You asked "since when" I was showing when you said you don't like gays. doodhuh;
): Sry babe
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 11:02:26 AM
Because he made a homophobic comment and then pretended he didn't.
ok powerofone;
I figured it was so long ago that you guys wouldn't bring it up; especially something from almost two years ago. I haven't shown an intolerance to gay people since I can remember being active on here again, so I figured everyone had turned over a new leaf and forgotten that.
Quote from: Nathan on November 16, 2009, 11:12:36 AM
I figured it was so long ago that you guys wouldn't bring it up; especially something from almost two years ago. I haven't shown an intolerance to gay people since I can remember being active on here again, so I figured everyone had turned over a new leaf and forgotten that.
What were your originial reasons for intolerance?
Quote from: justjack on November 16, 2009, 11:13:11 AM
What were your originial reasons for intolerance?
Enviromental factors/upbringing I suppose.
Wait thats why you were intolerant to it?
Quote from: justjack on November 16, 2009, 11:56:07 AM
Wait thats why you were intolerant to it?
Yeah. My dad was all hardcore republican and shit.
Quote from: Nathan on November 16, 2009, 11:56:51 AM
Yeah. My dad was all hardcore republican and shit.
Mine are too. And hardcore religious.
I'll admit at first if i see gay people, i have some sort of internalized homophobia if they are really femme, but then if i actually meet them and talk to them i get over it:)
I don't know why that happens though.
Quote from: justjack on November 16, 2009, 12:02:05 PM
Mine are too. And hardcore religious.
I'll admit at first if i see gay people, i have some sort of internalized homophobia if they are really femme, but then if i actually meet them and talk to them i get over it:)
I don't know why that happens though.
I thought you told me you were gay.
Quote from: Nathan on November 16, 2009, 11:12:36 AM
I figured it was so long ago that you guys wouldn't bring it up; especially something from almost two years ago. I haven't shown an intolerance to gay people since I can remember being active on here again, so I figured everyone had turned over a new leaf and forgotten that.
lol @ you expecting everyone to "turn over a new leaf" just for you
Quote from: Nyerp on November 16, 2009, 12:59:04 PM
lol @ you expecting everyone to "turn over a new leaf" just for you
why not?
I would:D
Quote from: justjack on November 16, 2009, 01:00:19 PM
why not?
because he's nyerp and he's autistic. i cant think of any better reason.
Quote from: RDX on November 16, 2009, 01:04:45 PM
because he's nyerp and he's autistic. i cant think of any better reason.
i lol'd at this.
a lot.
nyerp isn't autistic. he has assburgers and anger issues. :3
ok back to choice/genes/water
i'm NYERPtistic :D
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 01:13:56 PM
nyerp isn't autistic. he has assburgers and anger issues. :3
ok back to choice/genes/water
lol assburgers thats a new one
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 01:13:56 PM
nyerp isn't autistic. he has assburgers and anger issues. :3
ok back to choice/genes/water
assburgers is a form of autism though n_u
just so you know i don't actually have either doodthing;
Quote from: Nyerp on November 16, 2009, 01:45:58 PM
just so you know i don't actually have either doodthing;
we know, you're just an annoying fuck
Quote from: Nyerp on November 16, 2009, 01:45:58 PM
just so you know i don't actually have either doodthing;
You definitely have the latter, Nyerp.
Quote from: Nyerp on November 16, 2009, 01:45:58 PM
just so you know i don't actually have either doodthing;
I never implied that you did.
No people choose to be gay for attention
I think it has more to do with a hormonal imbalance and environmental factors.
Quote from: Socks on November 16, 2009, 02:00:21 PM
we know, you're just an annoying fuck
fuck you
Quote from: JMV on November 16, 2009, 02:05:50 PM
You definitely have the latter, Nyerp.
i was referring to autism and asperger's
environmental factor
penis factor y/n
gays just make it up because they want the attention
Quote from: Nyerp on November 17, 2009, 06:02:55 AM
fuck you
thread over, being gay is a choice, thanks Nyerp
This thread is sooo gay.
Quote from: j o e i n c on November 17, 2009, 11:39:52 AM
gays just make it up because they want the attention
I thought 'bi' people were the ones who typically lied for attention.
Quote from: ДавиÌд on November 18, 2009, 10:22:32 AM
I thought 'bi' people were the ones who typically lied for attention.
I don't appreciate the sarcasm.
'Use' of quotation marks.
Quote from: Alyssa the Glowing Sole on November 18, 2009, 11:10:07 AM
'Use' of quotation marks.
I'm still with Travis on this one. That's just how David highlights stuff.
Quote from: ДавиÌд on November 18, 2009, 10:22:32 AM
I thought 'bi' people were the ones who typically lied for attention.
Lol middle school girls. "I'm totally bi even though I still only go out with guys."
Some members need to be banned from the Serious Discussion board.
Also, I'm with JMV. Because he pretty much said what I was going to.
ilu james giggle;
Quote from: Julius on November 18, 2009, 11:48:12 AM
Some members need to be banned from the Serious Discussion board.
because they have a different opinion?
Quote from: RDX on November 18, 2009, 11:55:20 AM
because they have a different opinion?
No, because they're idiots.
I don't care about different opinions.
Quote from: Thyme on November 18, 2009, 11:13:32 AM
I'm still with Travis on this one. That's just how David highlights stuff.
And I should add, that I was just referring to the bisexual people who claim to be bi for attention, not saying that all were like that.
Quote from: ДавиÌд on November 18, 2009, 12:17:59 PM
And I should add, that I was just referring to the bisexual people who claim to be bi for attention, not saying that all were like that.
Bisexual people do it for attention. They're the partial reason people think it's a choice.
everyone is bi, technically.
i enjoy a good penis
Quote from: RDX on November 18, 2009, 12:22:23 PM
everyone is bi, technically.
RDX,
what were you thinking?
Oh shit, I'm not gonna go into this akudood;
how is everyone bi
Quote from: Nyerp on November 18, 2009, 01:23:49 PM
how is everyone bi
he should have said everyone has the
potential to be bi, if they wanted to
Quote from: Socks on November 18, 2009, 01:26:41 PM
he should have said everyone has the potential to be bi, if they wanted to
yeah, that's what i meant. i just worded it terribly.
Still, let's just assume everyone is bi. Then it would be AWESOME!
Quote from: Alyssa the Glowing Sole on November 18, 2009, 11:15:49 PM
Still, let's just assume everyone is bi. Then it would be AWESOME!
I agree. AWESOME
not a choice!
other than that I'm unsure but I can't imagine I ever made a choice to like girls. That's something that happened as naturally as liking boys.
changing sexual orientation of fruit flies and some other animal have been done before (but faggots didn't want the research to go on.)
Like I said, I'm pretty sure it has to do with hormones and environment. Pump a lot of testosterone into a gay guy and see if he's still a raging homosexual. Opposite is true with the opposite gender. Butch lesbians are just that because of too much testosterone.
Of course environment is a big factor, too. But change one's environment long enough and they will adapt. So if you're gay and want to be straight, simply take hormones and change your environment. Your orientation will probably change after some time. Of course, you would have to fight some urges at the beginning, but eventually you wouldn't get those urges anymore, and may even get disgusted by them. The same probably goes for someone straight wanting to become gay.
Here's a hint: If you want to have the opposite sexuality, you probably already do
Quote from: Joe on November 23, 2009, 01:35:32 AM
Like I said, I'm pretty sure it has to do with hormones and environment. Pump a lot of testosterone into a gay guy and see if he's still a raging homosexual. Opposite is true with the opposite gender. Butch lesbians are just that because of too much testosterone.
Of course environment is a big factor, too. But change one's environment long enough and they will adapt. So if you're gay and want to be straight, simply take hormones and change your environment. Your orientation will probably change after some time. Of course, you would have to fight some urges at the beginning, but eventually you wouldn't get those urges anymore, and may even get disgusted by them. The same probably goes for someone straight wanting to become gay.
Nice stereotyping there, Guido.
And that probably has to be one of the funniest ways of changing a person's sexual orientation I've ever heard.
Quote from: Joe on November 23, 2009, 01:35:32 AM
Like I said, I'm pretty sure it has to do with hormones and environment. Pump a lot of testosterone into a gay guy and see if he's still a raging homosexual. Opposite is true with the opposite gender. Butch lesbians are just that because of too much testosterone.
so what about femme lesbians?
Quote from: Skylark on November 23, 2009, 08:16:44 AM
so what about femme lesbians?
how about twink faggots akudood;
Quote from: Joe on November 23, 2009, 01:35:32 AM
Like I said, I'm pretty sure it has to do with hormones and environment. Pump a lot of testosterone into a gay guy and see if he's still a raging homosexual. Opposite is true with the opposite gender. Butch lesbians are just that because of too much testosterone.
Of course environment is a big factor, too. But change one's environment long enough and they will adapt. So if you're gay and want to be straight, simply take hormones and change your environment. Your orientation will probably change after some time. Of course, you would have to fight some urges at the beginning, but eventually you wouldn't get those urges anymore, and may even get disgusted by them. The same probably goes for someone straight wanting to become gay.
For your sake,I really hope you were joking.
It isn't related to hormones.
If anything it would be related to how your brain interprets pheromones.
It isn't a choice.
It could be environmental.
But the idea of it being hormonal is just a useless shot in the dark.
But how funny it would be if hormones really were responsible, because then sexual orientation would easily be changed.
Isn't that easy though.
Quote from: Skylark on November 23, 2009, 08:16:44 AM
so what about femme lesbians?
Represent!
Seriously, though:
Quote from: Joe on November 23, 2009, 01:35:32 AM
Like I said, I'm pretty sure it has to do with hormones and environment. Pump a lot of testosterone into a gay guy and see if he's still a raging homosexual. Opposite is true with the opposite gender. Butch lesbians are just that because of too much testosterone.
It's a cute theory, but you have absolutely no proof on a human scale. If you were right, MtF transsexuals would be attracted to men as a rule (due to high estrogen levels), and FtM transsexuals would be attracted to women as a rule (due to high testosterone levels). This is very, very, very untrue (folks saying that MtFs are confused gay men are often surprised at the high percentage of lesbians).
Femininity doesn't imply androphilia, masculinity does not imply gynephilia.
sometimes i want to violently fuck all lesbians to remind them who is in charge doodthing;
Quote from: Socks on November 23, 2009, 10:30:22 AM
sometimes i want to violently fuck all lesbians to remind them who is in charge doodthing;
And do you ever accomplish this task?
Quote from: justjack on November 23, 2009, 11:43:49 AM
And do you ever accomplish this task?
one day i'll have a cellar dedicated to violent lesbian fucking doodhuh;
Quote from: Socks on November 23, 2009, 11:48:48 AM
one day i'll have a cellar dedicated to violent lesbian fucking doodhuh;
One day i will make a movie about this.
Quote from: YPR on November 23, 2009, 05:19:39 AM
Here's a hint: If you want to have the opposite sexuality, you probably already do
I was trying to make it the most politically correct possible while still making sense, but I guess it didn't work. :(
I guess what I meant to say was, if you're really confused and don't know what sexual orientation you are and have a lack of identity, hormones would probably make sense. Obviously if you KNOW you're gay or lesbian or straight or whatever, nothing's really ever going to change your orientation. But if you're confused, you don't know what you are, who you are, etc.
Quote from: Joe on November 24, 2009, 07:04:44 AM
I was trying to make it the most politically correct possible while still making sense, but I guess it didn't work. :(
I guess what I meant to say was, if you're really confused and don't know what sexual orientation you are and have a lack of identity, hormones would probably make sense. Obviously if you KNOW you're gay or lesbian or straight or whatever, nothing's really ever going to change your orientation. But if you're confused, you don't know what you are, who you are, etc.
Well I'm Nathan.
case studies:
it's exceedingly unlikely that the ancient romans and greeks were somehow genetically inclined, in a 'born that way' sense, to value equally, if not outright prefer male romantic partnership
sources:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome#Overview
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality#Ancient_Greece
nor is it remotely likely that thai kathoey culture is the result of some mysterious, scientifically unverified, yet somehow highly prevalent and, stranger still, thai-exclusive """gay gene"""
sources:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey
2. boyah's own resident ladyboy experts famy and david
similarly, see:
Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam#Modern_eraBefore the modern era, Islamic nations were not so opposed to same-sex relations. For example, a ruler in Persia in the 11th-century advised his son “to alternate his partners seasonally: young men in the summer and women in the winter.”
The modern rejection and criminalization of “homosexuality in Islam gained momentum through the exogenous effects of European colonialism. . . . ” European thought at the time treated homosexuality as “against nature.”[87]
once again, genes from birth are exceedingly unlikely to be (solely) responsible for either current or past general attitudes regarding homosexuality in islam
in all aforementioned cases, it's overwhelmingly culture, not genes, that determined the respective society's prevalence and (non)acceptance of homosexuality (sources: ibid.; literally just ctrl-f "culture" or "social"/"society" in any of the four aforementioned articles)
empirical studies:
it's exceedingly
likely that genetics, and especially gene
expression, affect how susceptible one might be to the gay menace, however
and here is my proof of that claim, in the form of a
Fun Fact™:
Quote from: YPargh on November 15, 2009, 04:45:29 PM
Sigh... I wasn't implying water changes sexuality i was merely saying chemicals can mess with genes with prolonged exposure over generations and generations
chemicals and other environmental stimuli can affect gene
expression even within one single lifespan
or even within one
eventby means of a well-documented but poorly understood biological phenomenon called epigenetics
sources:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics#Contemporary
2.
Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics#Molecular_basisMost epigenetic changes only occur within the course of one individual organism's lifetime; however, these epigenetic changes can be transmitted to the organism's offspring through a process called transgenerational epigenetic inheritance. Moreover, if gene inactivation occurs in a sperm or egg cell that results in fertilization, this epigenetic modification may also be transferred to the next generation.[23]
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_theories_of_homosexuality
4.
Quote from: http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/668167?[spoiler][pdf]http://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Rice-et-al.-2012.pdf[/pdf][/spoiler]
tl;dr it is almost certainly a combination of both inherent human nature (genetics) and nurture (epigenetics) that determine individual sexuality and the sexuality demographics of any given population
tl;dr human sexuality is quite fluid and one can indeed be conditioned via exposure to like one thing or another
that does not imply choice in any sense
Quote from: Majorana's Mask on June 16, 2017, 11:29:59 PM
tl;dr it is almost certainly a combination of both inherent human nature (genetics) and nurture (epigenetics) that determine individual sexuality and the sexuality demographics of any given population
tl;dr human sexuality is quite fluid and one can indeed be conditioned via exposure to like one thing or another
that does not imply choice in any sense
yeah that sounds about right
though i mean someone could still choose to be gay (like straight men that do gay porn because it pays well) it's just unlikely sillydood;
Quote from: ƕɾο on June 17, 2017, 03:33:56 PM
Quote from: Majorana's Mask on June 16, 2017, 11:29:59 PM
tl;dr it is almost certainly a combination of both inherent human nature (genetics) and nurture (epigenetics) that determine individual sexuality and the sexuality demographics of any given population
tl;dr human sexuality is quite fluid and one can indeed be conditioned via exposure to like one thing or another
that does not imply choice in any sense
yeah that sounds about right
i feel like it should be more obvious than it is befuddlement
especially considering there's plenty of science backing it, unlike every other gay theory
Quote from: ƕɾο on June 17, 2017, 03:33:56 PM
though i mean someone could still choose to be gay (like straight men that do gay porn because it pays well) it's just unlikely sillydood;
i wouldn't really call this "choosing to be gay"
it's more like taking a somewhat awkward job
...although i feel like you'd have to be pretty
receptive to the idea of
taking another man's somewhat awkward job to even willingly end up
receiving that job in the first place (i.e. at least somewhat gay already)
in either case, not really what i'd call a choice at all
I mean you can choose not to do gay porn, and I'd say doing gay porn is p. gay, and typically-straight people choose to do gay porn, so I would say that you can choose to be gay, but that doesn't mean it's really a choice to be gay or not, if that makes any sense.
i think what you're telling me is that you can choose
not to
behave gay
which gay people everywhere already do all the time lol, very often out of necessity
and i have to be honest,
Quote from: ƕɾο on June 17, 2017, 06:50:45 PMtypically-straight people choose to do gay porn
i simply don't believe this for a second
I think more straight women tend to do lesbian porn than straight men with gay porn
Also if sexual preference is just based on environmental factors etcetera then doesn't that justify the existence of pray away the gay camps
Quote from: YPargh on June 17, 2017, 07:24:11 PM
Also if sexual preference is just based on environmental factors etcetera then doesn't that justify the existence of pray away the gay camps
first of all, no, not at all
and secondly we said that's one element to it, certainly not the only thing
Well if it's not something that you're born as then their thought process that they can change someone's preference doesn't seem incorrect necessarily
I'm not saying they're "good" or whatever
are boners a choice
i use my dick as a compass for the right path
its a gy path
haha
the enviromental factor is a hot daddy, the genetic factor is being born with a benis
Quote from: YPargh on June 17, 2017, 07:24:11 PM
I think more straight women tend to do lesbian porn than straight men with gay porn
because as we all know, it's much more socially acceptable for women to
behave gay
Quote from: YPargh on June 17, 2017, 07:24:11 PM
Also if sexual preference is just based on environmental factors etcetera then doesn't that justify the existence of pray away the gay camps
Quote from: YPargh on June 22, 2017, 07:35:14 AM
Well if it's not something that you're born as then their thought process that they can change someone's preference doesn't seem incorrect necessarily
if human sexuality really is as massively affected by epigenetics as the evidence overwhelmingly suggests it is: once a gene expresses itself a certain way, it's extremely difficult to unexpress it
an unfortunate analogy would be cancer, which is the result of a gene inadvertently expressing itself in a particularly detrimental way
and the only effective way to undo cancer is to outright kill it
in the distant future, it might be possible to literally cure a person of non-heterosexuality by using something like viral gene therapy to reprogram genes and turn certain expressions on or off
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vectors_in_gene_therapy#Viruses
that same method would be useful in treating cancer
but we treat cancer because its effects are often fatal, or at the very least, quite devastating
but non-heterosexuality isn't actually devastating in and of itself, so 'curing' it that way would ultimately be a waste of resources lol
so that's why praying the gay away simply wouldn't work: it's not an effective means of changing the way genes are expressed once epigenetic events have been triggered
I always thought the choice argument was just plain stupid period. I never understood why anyone would consciously choose to be gay if being straight was an option. I mean, people get kicked out of their homes, bullied, and even kill themselves over their sexuality. Hell, some people say they knew they were gay when they were very young, before they even really understood societal norms in relation to themselves and their own sexual identity. So yeah, I don't really understand the choice explanation, unless you're deeply religious and also decide to forgo reason as well I guess.
Still, I don't believe there is a simple gay gene that makes you "born" gay. There's been much evidence that usually show it's more complicated and likely based on a combination of environment, epigenetic factors, blah blah etc.
I always found the twin studies to be pretty interesting, because for a while people assumed that twins would either both be gay or both be straight, which would be the logical assumption if a gay gene were to be the primary reason. Although if I recall in the cases where one twin was gay, there was only like a 15 or 20% chance that the other one would be as well. So it implicated that while they may share the same DNA, it doesn't necessarily mean that they'd have the same sexuality as previously thought.
Sadly, evidence or reason doesn't seem to go very far these days when it comes to a hotly debated topic such as this one.
Still, I don't believe there is a gay gene either and that you're simply "born" gay. There's been much evidence that usually show it's more complicated and likely based on a combination of environment, epigenetic factors, blah blah etc.
(http://i.imgur.com/lDg3vlE.jpg)
I can't tell what hurts my eyes more - the image or all the watermarks
Quote from: SVT on July 10, 2017, 01:21:30 PM
Still, I don't believe there is a gay gene either and that you're simply "born" gay. There's been much evidence that usually show it's more complicated and likely based on a combination of environment, epigenetic factors, blah blah etc.
(http://i.imgur.com/lDg3vlE.jpg)
moreso the use of the gay gene as an oversimplified answer is how i should've specified lol
Quote from: Himu on July 10, 2017, 05:05:51 AM
I always thought the choice argument was just plain stupid period. I never understood why anyone would consciously choose to be gay if being straight was an option. I mean, people get kicked out of their homes, bullied, and even kill themselves over their sexuality. Hell, some people say they knew they were gay when they were very young, before they even really understood societal norms in relation to themselves and their own sexual identity. So yeah, I don't really understand the choice explanation, unless you're deeply religious and also decide to forgo reason as well I guess.
Still, I don't believe there is a simple gay gene that makes you "born" gay. There's been much evidence that usually show it's more complicated and likely based on a combination of environment, epigenetic factors, blah blah etc.
agreed with everything
if the theories fail to explain natural phenomena with such embarrassing regularity as the separate "nature" and "nurture" theories do, then obviously they're bad theories
Quote from: Himu on July 10, 2017, 05:05:51 AM
I always found the twin studies to be pretty interesting, because for a while people assumed that twins would either both be gay or both be straight, which would be the logical assumption if a gay gene were to be the primary reason. Although if I recall in the cases where one twin was gay, there was only like a 15 or 20% chance that the other one would be as well. So it implicated that while they may share the same DNA, it doesn't necessarily mean that they'd have the same sexuality as previously thought.
Sadly, evidence or reason doesn't seem to go very far these days when it comes to a hotly debated topic such as this one.
and that's where epigenetixxx comes in dittodood;
it's the only thing i'm aware of that could possibly fill every single one of the gaps in the prevailing, horribly incomplete gay theories
Quote from: SVT on July 10, 2017, 01:21:30 PM
Still, I don't believe there is a gay gene either and that you're simply "born" gay. There's been much evidence that usually show it's more complicated and likely based on a combination of environment, epigenetic factors, blah blah etc.
[spoiler](http://i.imgur.com/lDg3vlE.jpg)[/spoiler]
i'm not sure if this is agreement or mockery but either way, you're completely right girl;
Quote from: YPargh on July 10, 2017, 01:29:44 PM
I can't tell what hurts my eyes more - the image or all the watermarks
rofl
Quote from: YPargh on November 15, 2009, 12:23:47 PM
There was something on the Colbert Report once with this guy that was talking about how some male fish and frogs are gaining more feminine features due to the content of the water... Perhaps it has something to do with homosexuality as well, i don't know... I feel like there should be some sort of explanation as to why some people have certain traits
TURNIN THE FRIGGIN FROGS GAY
ATRAZINE
Quote from: Khadafi on July 12, 2017, 09:40:54 PM
Quote from: YPargh on November 15, 2009, 12:23:47 PM
There was something on the Colbert Report once with this guy that was talking about how some male fish and frogs are gaining more feminine features due to the content of the water... Perhaps it has something to do with homosexuality as well, i don't know... I feel like there should be some sort of explanation as to why some people have certain traits
TURNIN THE FRIGGIN FROGS GAY
I mean what's ridiculous about that though
Quote from: YPargh on July 12, 2017, 09:49:00 PM
Quote from: Khadafi on July 12, 2017, 09:40:54 PM
TURNIN THE FRIGGIN FROGS GAY
I mean what's ridiculous about that though
nothing, actually
it's a known, well-documented phenomenon
http://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs/
in fact,
it is yet another point in favor of the epigenetic theory[pdf]https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00900509/document[/pdf]
ctrl-f that document for "epigen" and see what you find giggle;
most notably, look at the abstract and part 5
those frogs would be trans tho
this thread is so gay