what do you guys think.
single payer or no
hey use message icons
health cares free for us
Well, this topic is really lacking.
I think reform that reduces costs of health care for those who already have it, and then giving a public option for those who are either not affluent enough to get private health care or are unable to qualify for it. I think it's rather sad that some people [read: the far right] believe that we have the best health care system, even though multiple studies have proven otherwise, and we end up spending the most out of any other country for our mediocre system.
Quote from: Sponge on August 21, 2009, 02:52:14 PM
health cares free for us
Just because the government pays for it doesn't make it 'free', where do you think the government gets its funds from? huhdoodame;
I say yes to universal healthcare, but not now. We're in deep shit with our national debt, and throwing out a universal healthcare system right now would fuck us up.
I say no to national healthcare regardless of our debt situation. I'm strongly opposed to further expansion of the federal government.
Quote from: Zach on August 21, 2009, 09:43:35 PM
I say no to national healthcare regardless of our debt situation. I'm strongly opposed to further expansion of the federal government.
What the hell is wrong with people like you? doodhuh;
Quote from: Zach on August 21, 2009, 09:43:35 PM
I say no to national healthcare regardless of our debt situation. I'm strongly opposed to further expansion of the federal government.
i say get rid of public schools, etc
THE WAY THE FOUNDESR INTENDED!!!
Quote from: j o e i n c on August 22, 2009, 10:04:13 AM
i say get rid of public schools, etc
THE WAY THE FOUNDESR INTENDED!!!
YES SIR!!!!
We need healthcare reform. There shouldn't really be any argument about that. The methods of achieving this, however, can be confusing. huhdoodame;
Quote from: ДавиÌд on August 21, 2009, 05:03:15 PM
Just because the government pays for it doesn't make it 'free', where do you think the government gets its funds from? huhdoodame;
Way to make us look bad. akudood;
I have one idea for how we can pay for healthcare: get rid of the Jews. I mean, they have a lot of money, and if we got rid of them, we could collect all of that money and spend it on healthcare for everyone. Since Jews appear and act the same as the average white person, no one would notice when they're gone!
Quote from: coz on August 22, 2009, 12:32:21 PM
I have one idea for how we can pay for healthcare: get rid of the Jews. I mean, they have a lot of money, and if we got rid of them, we could collect all of that money and spend it on healthcare for everyone. Since Jews appear and act the same as the average white person, no one would notice when they're gone!
Yeah, you're right. Them and their curly hair and whatnot.
Quote from: j o e i n c on August 22, 2009, 10:04:13 AM
i say get rid of public schools, etc
THE WAY THE FOUNDESR INTENDED!!!
public schools are the best. at least in canada.
Why don't we just extend Medicare to every citizen like Canada?
Quote from: Satellite Anthem Icarus on August 22, 2009, 04:35:31 PM
Why don't we just extend Medicare to every citizen like Canada?
Because you suck.
Quote from: j o e i n c on August 22, 2009, 10:04:13 AM
i say get rid of public schools, etc
THE WAY THE FOUNDESR INTENDED!!!
Well, sort of.
The federal government doesn't have the power to regulate the schools. Since the Constitution doesn't list it as a federal power, it is automatically delegated to the states. The Department of Education should be abolished and control of the schools should be returned to individual states.
Quote from: Zach on August 22, 2009, 07:58:03 PM
Well, sort of.
The federal government doesn't have the power to regulate the schools. Since the Constitution doesn't list it as a federal power, it is automatically delegated to the states. The Department of Education should be abolished and control of the schools should be returned to individual states.
yeah i imagine that would work real well
Well, I just got my bill for my physical last month and here is how it breaks down.
| Description | Transaction Fee Total | Insurance Amount |
| Established Pt Eval 18+ Years | $190.00 | $165.00 |
| Limited Exam Pt | $80.00 | $80.00 |
| EPSDT service | $15.00 | $15.00 |
| Venipuncture Finger Stick | $13.00 | $13.00 |
| CBC with diff and platelet auomated. | $35.00 | $35.00 |
| Cholesterol, serum, or whole blood, total | $19.00 | $19.00 |
| Lipoprotein HDL | $30.00 | $30.00 |
| Acoustic Reflex Testing | $35.00 | $35.00 |
For about 45 minutes in the doctor my total bill is 417 dollars. Luckily I had insurance, which covered all but $25.00.
For people who go LOL TOHSE ARE FAIR PRICES: The "acoustic reflex testing" is basically taking a handheld machine, putting part in my ear, and pressing a button. It takes two minutes. There's no way that costs $35.00
Our current system is broken and it should be obvious how inflated the costs are.
I don't think that anyone is arguing that reform isn't needed, just that a government plan isn't the best idea. I don't mind talking about reform, but I am in support of private insurance. I'm not into a public option.
LOL @ Americans.
Quote from: j o e i n c on August 25, 2009, 09:27:56 PM
i wish i was in BC
No you don't. Too many pakis there. The only good thing is the BC Bud.
dats rasis
I always wondered why not make it optional? Sign up on a form and if you agree that you want it, you and the others that agree pay the tax that funds it for you. If you say no, you can pay for it yourself. I honestly don't want it, but I can understand why people would want it. Once my parents stop paying for my health insurance (next year) I doubt I will get health care, just because I've only had to go to the doctors once because I was sick which was when I was really little, and only go on the occasional check up. People like me who don't give a fuck about health care shouldn't have to pay taxes for it. But at the same time I see how economical it would be if there was a government health care plan. But I see health care as a privilege, not a right that I have.
Quote from: Cookie on August 27, 2009, 06:24:09 PM
Once my parents stop paying for my health insurance (next year) I doubt I will get health care, just because I've only had to go to the doctors once because I was sick which was when I was really little, and only go on the occasional check up.
Pretty much the same here. A lot of the uninsured people cited by proponents of government-run health care are people like you who could probably get coverage but don't want it. Many more are illegal aliens, meaning that the number of people who truly aren't capable of getting health insurance is minuscule, and they likely get all sorts of government benefits anyway.
Uh, I feel like smashing my head off of a wall after reading that.
Health insurance companies have been known (i.e. common practice for them) to collect on premiums for years but once the person actually needs expensive care, dropping the person due to "a pre-existing condition" or anything similar.
Allowing for public care, in addition to private insurance fixes that.
Quote from: JMV on August 27, 2009, 06:34:37 PM
Uh, I feel like smashing my head off of a wall after reading that.
Health insurance companies have been known (i.e. common practice for them) to collect on premiums for years but once the person actually needs expensive care, dropping the person due to "a pre-existing condition" or anything similar.
Allowing for public care, in addition to private insurance fixes that.
I'm really conflicted about the public option, because I don't like the idea of forcing taxpayers to cover the uninsured, but I really feel bad for the people who can't afford health insurance. The main problem for me is paying for the people who can buy their own health insurance but would switch to the government plan.
Quote from: JMV on August 27, 2009, 06:34:37 PM
Uh, I feel like smashing my head off of a wall after reading that.
Health insurance companies have been known (i.e. common practice for them) to collect on premiums for years but once the person actually needs expensive care, dropping the person due to "a pre-existing condition" or anything similar.
Allowing for public care, in addition to private insurance fixes that.
I'm sorry :(
And I get all that, possibly create hefty fines for companies that practice this?
Quote from: Zach on August 27, 2009, 06:44:42 PM
I'm really conflicted about the public option, because I don't like the idea of forcing taxpayers to cover the uninsured, but I really feel bad for the people who can't afford health insurance. The main problem for me is paying for the people who can buy their own health insurance but would switch to the government plan.
Under a single-payer system that wouldn't be a problem.
Each hospital would receive a set amount for service.
Also wouldn't switching to the government plan be "the free market" working? They don't like the price and service offered by a private company so they go with the government's offering.
That would be like arguing that people who can afford UPS and Fedex shouldn't use the USPS.
Quote from: JMV on August 27, 2009, 07:12:17 PM
Under a single-payer system that wouldn't be a problem.
Each hospital would receive a set amount for service.
Also wouldn't switching to the government plan be "the free market" working? They don't like the price and service offered by a private company so they go with the government's offering.
That would be like arguing that people who can afford UPS and Fedex shouldn't use the USPS.
I suppose I've misunderstood some of the proposed plan, so I guess that I can sort of get on board with single-payer provided that private insurance is still a valid option (that is, not getting fined for staying with private coverage).
Yeah, Obama never said anything about fining people for not having insurance. I'd say the system would be comparable with taxing for schools.
You pay taxes to pay for public schools whether or not your family uses them. You can pay for a private school,but you still have a civil obligation to pay the school tax(though I'm sure some people are against paying taxes to support public schools so that argument doesn't work for you)
It Massachusetts we have a vaguely similar system, though it's not as good what is proposed. Everyone is required to carry health insurance. Those who can't afford private insurance are eligible to receive MassHealth (Massachusetts branded Medicaid). It is fully subsidized for those within 100% of the poverty line and partially subsidized for those who make up to 300% of the poverty level's income. It works though I do have some issues with requiring the person to carry private insurance rather than letting them carry masshealth, even if they aren't getting a subsidy(maybe they can, I'm not 100% on this).
oh I forgot: people who aren't carrying insurance are subject to fines/fees when taxes are filed.
So you are required to buy insurance if you can afford it in Massachusetts? That's pretty lame.
What about the concerns over quality of care in a government-run plan? Canada and Britain's systems seem to always be in the news for all the wrong reasons. How realistic is the talk about rationing of care for older Americans?
Quote from: Zach on August 27, 2009, 07:38:08 PM
So you are required to buy insurance if you can afford it in Massachusetts? That's pretty lame.
You're required to carry insurance no matter what.
I support a single-payer system since that would be the best option but republicans had a priapistic convulsion over that so a public option will have to do for now.
QuoteWhat about the concerns over quality of care in a government-run plan? Canada and Britain's systems seem to always be in the news for all the wrong reasons. How realistic is the talk about rationing of care for older Americans?
Do you watch Fox?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6017878/Stephen-Hawking-I-would-not-be-alive-without-the-NHS.html
Fox and other conservative networks seem to skew and misrepresent figures. I was talking to Guff about this earlier when Conservapedia claimed the average time in the ER in Canada was 20+ hours. However, Guff pointed out:
Guff: okay now, the issue is that while at that time the average wait time to see a doctor after visiting the er in the us was 38 minutes, then they mention 20 hours and 42 minutes IN SOCIALIST CANADA
9:26:08 PM Guff: problem: that figure is for being discharged or admitted to another ward @_@
9:26:16 PM Guff: not for seeing a doctor @_@
9:26:28 PM Guff: which sounds uh perfectly reasonable to me @_@
9:30:05 PM Guff: oh and lol yeah as one of the commenters points out because a lot of people without insurance wind up in the er out of not being able to pay for normal treatment the numbers get skewed anyways @_@
As for health care rationing: that's just another conservative scare tactic in the same vein as "Death Panels" and "forced abortions".