I recently saw this (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071212/sc_afp/healthscienceskoreacloning), and decided to make a thread about cloning. How do you feel about it? Should cloning humans or any other living things be legal? If it is, would cloning a person/animal just for its organs so that the person it was cloned from could live, would that be okay or not? befuddlement
That would be a waste of time and resources if the only purpose for the clone is for the organs.
Well, in recent news, some Koreans genetically modified cat sperm cells with Bacteria or something, and implanted it into a mother cat. The cat gave birth to kittens, which, when exposed to ultraviolet rays, will GLOW IN THE DARK.
And how is that bad? The person who did that got into trouble because of that.
maybe it will be like star wars where they clone a bunch of jango fetts and make an army and make a single clone normal and that iwll be boba fett :D :D :D
If it improves our lives, cloning a person to create an embryo and obtain stem cells is fine.
No, that would just have drastically bad results.
You clone someone for a heart. Alright, so what happens to this person? He knows he is alive and is perfectly conscious with what is going on. "Uhh, hey, soo we need your heart for this other guy, k?" Would that go over well?
Also, even if it wasn't a vital organ, What would we do with them when the organ is taken? Throw them into a garbage disposal chute? We can't keep them alive, because then it would cause turmoil having two of someone running around.
Quote from: Selkie on December 15, 2007, 06:13:10 PM
No, that would just have drastically bad results.
You clone someone for a heart. Alright, so what happens to this person? He knows he is alive and is perfectly conscious with what is going on. "Uhh, hey, soo we need your heart for this other guy, k?" Would that go over well?
Also, even if it wasn't a vital organ, What would we do with them when the organ is taken? Throw them into a garbage disposal chute? We can't keep them alive, because then it would cause turmoil having two of someone running around.
That's exactly what I'm saying! But what about cloning the organs themselves?
Quote from: some_person on December 15, 2007, 06:27:59 PM
That's exactly what I'm saying! But what about cloning the organs themselves?
It would require creating a cloned embryo to create stem cells.
Stem Cell research just took a different route. They're making those fucked up cells of whatever they need by morphing live people's skin cells and shit.
Now why does an embryo need to be created to get stem cells?
Quote from: some_person on December 21, 2007, 10:08:10 AM
Now why does an embryo need to be created to get stem cells?
because embryos make stem cells and it's kind of hard to make them out of magic but a lot of people think that one thing that some scientists people did recently what with making other cells like stem cells or something is pretty cool and might hold promise but at this point isn't perfected nor has it been researched all that well
Quote from: Commodore Guff on December 21, 2007, 04:01:31 PM
because embryos make stem cells and it's kind of hard to make them out of magic but a lot of people think that one thing that some scientists people did recently what with making other cells like stem cells or something is pretty cool and might hold promise but at this point isn't perfected nor has it been researched all that well
What about those adult stem cells I keep hearing about?
Quote from: some_person on December 21, 2007, 04:03:34 PM
What about those adult stem cells I keep hearing about?
not as versatile, in that embryonic stem cells am able to become just about anything so that's pretty cool but they're jacks of all trades whereas adult stem cells am be masters of one or maybe two or three but mostly just limited to differentiating into relatively specific types of cells i.e. hi i'm a adult stem cell but that's a silly name because i haven't done anything with my life yet hold on a sec okay back now i'm a smell cell thing but i wanted to be a astronaut cell but i couldn't my parents lied to me but what else is new
but anyways i lost track of where i was going with this but the point is that adult stem cells are limited to becoming specific types of cells and there aren't necessarily adult stem cells for every single type of cell one might need
So then couldn't you just take adult stem cells from different organs and just work with that?
Quote from: some_person on December 21, 2007, 09:30:43 PM
So then couldn't you just take adult stem cells from different organs and just work with that?
Quote from: Commodore Guff on December 21, 2007, 04:10:08 PM
...there aren't necessarily adult stem cells for every single type of cell one might need
even then, going on a scavenger hunt for the right adult stem cell isn't as easy as just making the personalized cell factory that people am hoping stem cells could make
So because of that, we want to use the other kind of stem cells, right?
Quote from: some_person on December 22, 2007, 11:34:30 AM
So because of that, we want to use the other kind of stem cells, right?
embryonic? yes, mostly
it's possible that in some circumstances it would be more practical to utilize adult stem cells but a) this is pure speculation and b) no one's really done anything with stem cells for humans yet anyways
but as was mentioned some posts ago recent developments may allow stem cells that are equivalent to embryonic stem cells to be created from uh not embryos so that's cool
And why did we have to kill embryos from their stem cells before?
Quote from: some_person on December 22, 2007, 11:44:25 AM
And why did we have to kill embryos from their stem cells before?
well the way your question is phrased implies that the embryo is a sort of angry dragon guarding the cave in which it stores its precious treasures (the stem cells) and must be defeated to gain access, but in most cases the destruction of the embryo is inadvertent because well golly gee it's just hard to do, but some scientists people succeeded in getting stem cells from mouse embryos without harming the embryo (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/50329.php) but apparently it's somewhat impractical and they am need more funding
even then, i think they usually need more than just one line of stem cells, given that not every line will survive or will mutate or something or just not be usable so it's not like they can just perform the separation once and have a party and never worry about it ever again
and the embryos in use were from fertility clinics and were set to be destroyed or kept in storage past the point of being usable anyways not sure if this was already mentioned oh well
We could clone some pretty awesome people, but would they think the same as they did before? (maybe not, but might be worth testing)
Quote from: ZACK777 IS MUDKIPZ on December 23, 2007, 12:40:49 PM
We could clone some pretty awesome people, but would they think the same as they did before? (maybe not, but might be worth testing)
Why would the clone act the same? The clone and the original might display similar behavior because, you know, they have the exact same genetic makeup, but one's nature is not entirely determined by one's genetic makeup.
I don't see human cloning as having any benefits. If people want more humans, they should just have babies the normal way, I'm sure it's a lot easier and doesn't require us pouring billions of dollars into research.
Honestly...what's the purpose? Unless someone wants a daughter or son that's EXACTLY the same as the father or mother, and one parent is infertile, it seems like a phenomenal waste of time, since getting a surrogate mother or artificial insemination is a lot less expensive.
I really hope that people aren't planning to recreate something out of "House of the Scorpion", where clones are harvested for their organs. Creating a child that is destined to die for some rich asshole? Right.
As for cloning animals, it wouldn't be a smart idea. Even cloning endangered animals to try and revive the species is extremely dangerous, because by having tons of identical animals, there's no genetic variation and they could all die from the same disease if some aren't stronger than others. The same goes for cloning animals for consumption - one disease, and they're all gone.
And don't get me started on cat ladies who want to clone the late Mr. Mittens because they think that the clone is a reincarnation of their dead cat. Ugh.
Quote from: Flameow on February 22, 2008, 07:51:01 PM
I really hope that people aren't planning to recreate something out of "House of the Scorpion", where clones are harvested for their organs. Creating a child that is destined to die for some rich asshole? Right.
The idea is that we'll be able to clone individual organs instead of entire bodies.
The whole idea of cloning should have people seriously shaking in their boots. It's basically one step away from full fledged human engineering. For some reason the name Adolus Huxley keeps flashing in my head.............
Quote from: Boognish on February 25, 2008, 12:39:11 PM
The whole idea of cloning should have people seriously shaking in their boots. It's basically one step away from full fledged human engineering. For some reason the name Adolus Huxley keeps flashing in my head.............
It can also go in a good direction and improve the lives of billions.
But it wont, and to think so is a little off base. No matter how good intentions would be, there's going to be someone somewhere who manipulates the creepy/weird/disgusting side of it. There's way too much people can do with genetic engineering. It's fucking ridiculous.
Quote from: Boognish on April 04, 2008, 10:46:18 AM
But it wont, and to think so is a little off base. No matter how good intentions would be, there's going to be someone somewhere who manipulates the creepy/weird/disgusting side of it. There's way too much people can do with genetic engineering. It's fucking ridiculous.
Like what?
Quote from: Houdini on April 04, 2008, 07:05:33 PM
Like what?
If Korean scientists can make some kittens glow in UV light through genetic engineering, then knows what else scientists can do.
Quote from: some_person on April 04, 2008, 07:47:39 PM
If Korean scientists can make some kittens glow in UV light through genetic engineering, then knows what else scientists can do.
I'm going to need some better evidence than glow-in-the-dark kittens.
Quote from: Houdini on April 04, 2008, 08:16:59 PM
I'm going to need some better evidence than glow-in-the-dark kittens.
Do you want me to get you the article? It should explain how the scientists did that, and how others could create another trait for an organism.
Who cares about glowing cats.
I want a cat that can get me a drink from the fridge.
Quote from: Van De Kamp on April 04, 2008, 08:34:47 PM
Who cares about glowing cats.
I want a cat that can get me a drink from the fridge.
Glowing cats is just a proof of concept. Nothing more. I think the article mentioned that as well.
Sure, it takes a while so its not like (Michel Jackson) is going to make clones of himself real fast