QuotePresident Bush attempted to convince the nation that Saddam Hussein had WMD as justification for invading Iraq in 2003. In Oct. 2002, for example, he stated, ?If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today ? and we do ? does it make any sense for the world to wait to confront him as he grows even stronger and develops even more dangerous weapons??
But today on the progressive radio program The Cappy McGarr Show, host Cappy McGarr reveals through a conversation with former Sen. Majority Leader Tom Daschle that in private, Bush?s real motivation was a personal vendetta:
Of all the reasons used to justify this awful war, the one that stunned me the most?and will shock you?was the one I heard from a close friend of mine former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle. Senator Daschle was Majority Leader at the time.
The Senate and The House Leadership were meeting with President Bush for a weekly breakfast back then, and as our country was leading up to the Iraq war. ? Bush got to talking about why we needed this war, and here?s what he said to Senator Daschle ?We need to get Saddam Hussein?that Mother _______ tried to take out my Dad.?
Listen to the audio:
http://websrvr80il.audiovideoweb.com/il80web20037/ThinkProgress/2007/CAPPY%20-%20Bush%20Revenge%20War.mp3
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/14/bush-saddam-dad/
What are your thoughts on this?
I'm not surprised. I thought his father's history with Saddam had a major role in his invasion of Iraq. Now it's out. Just another reason to say that he's a horrible president.
Wow. He sacrified American soldiers just to settle some stupid grudge? His dad isn't even harmed, I don't know why he was blubbering about it.
I'm really at a loss for words here...that's shocking.
Didn't his dad let Saddam go in the first Persian Gulf War?
The Americans had him cornered, but they let him go with a cease fire or peace treaty.
Wpw. Now that's unbelievable. A a reason this war started was because Hussein tried to kill his father? He didn't even succeed...
I believe it completely. But it was definitely part of a bigger picture.
I think the war was pretty obviously to
A) give the Bush Administration more power than it should have over the country (Patriot Act, wiretapping, etc all in the name of "security" from "terrorists") and
B) to be like "this is what will happen to you, bitchez" to the Middle East, for oil
So, 9/11 happens (by real "terrorists" or the government, who knows, it's another argument), Bush & Co. (really Cheney) sees it as a perfect opportunity to achieve aforementioned things, however they need a scapegoat to make the public feel like the war has a discernible purpose, so Bush probably goes "oh howbout that Hussein guy, yeah fuck him he tried to take out my dad"; Hussein works perfectly, the lines between him and Al-Quaeda can easily be smeared in the media and retarded American public, so they go with that.
Further evidence of the oil part is probably the Bush Administration's whole reluctancy to touch on global warming at all, because that would obviously lead to the conclusion that oil is bad, and at this point anyone who can see what's happening in the Middle East can see that we're there at least partly because of oil. However, a federal judge ordered the Administration to release a full report on global warming soon (they're 2 years overdue), so that's good.
I had a good conclusion to this in mind, but I forgot what it was. psyduck;
I'm pretty confident we didn't go in there for oil. They're supposed to have a lot, yes, but much of it is untapped. The revenge for his father thing seems far more likely, especially knowing how stupid our president is and all.
As for trying to kill his dad? WTH? Sadaam would have trouble launching an attack on Israel let alone a country halfway across the world. What a dumbass.
Quote from: Your Posting Rival on August 23, 2007, 07:43:31 AM
I'm pretty confident we didn't go in there for oil. They're supposed to have a lot, yes, but much of it is untapped. The revenge for his father thing seems far more likely, especially knowing how stupid our president is and all.
As for trying to kill his dad? WTH? Sadaam would have trouble launching an attack on Israel let alone a country halfway across the world. What a dumbass.
But plenty of the surrounding countries have oil, and I believe the war was in part to say to them, "you better pass legislation allowing foreign companies to take your oil, or else".
Quote from: Snorks B. Hindenbergh on August 23, 2007, 09:05:22 AM
But plenty of the surrounding countries have oil, and I believe the war was in part to say to them, "you better pass legislation allowing foreign companies to take your oil, or else".
I don't know... Kuwait already practically worshipes us
Haven't we known this from the begginning?
Ever since the soldiers were starting to come up with nothing as far as WMDs, and the morale of the country started to fade, we started questioning Bush. Republicans have always been the more violent party, and Bush is the epitamy of what that means. We have killed so many Iraqi's, yet we are only treading water. The Problem is, we're so deep into it that it would take possibly a year to pull our soldiers out.
Lets think about this. Even if they didnt have bio weapons we still should have gone. What kind of people are you that you think we shouldn't intervene to save hundreds of thousands of innocent lives? Saddam husein was a mass murderer. If you think this war is wrong then you must think WWII was wrong too.
Quote from: Gman61 on November 12, 2007, 09:09:10 PM
Lets think about this. Even if they didnt have bio weapons we still should have gone. What kind of people are you that you think we shouldn't intervene to save hundreds of thousands of innocent lives? Saddam husein was a mass murderer. If you think this war is wrong then you must think WWII was wrong too.
lets stop murder by murdering millions more AWESOME
We havent murdered millions. We killed terrorists whose daily activities consisted of making car bombs and killing jews and shiites
Quote from: Gman61 on November 12, 2007, 09:12:56 PM
We havent murdered millions. We killed terrorists whose daily activities consisted of making car bombs and killing jews and shiites
They weren't terrorists. And how dare you try to claim that we haven't killed any innocent people.
Also, here is an interesting quote from Immortal Technique's "Bin Laden"
QuoteThey say the rebels in Iraq still fight for Saddam
But that's bullshit, I'll show you why it's totally wrong
Cuz if another country invaded the hood tonight
It'd be warfare through Harlem, and Washington Heights
I wouldn't be fightin' for Bush or White America's dream
I'd be fightin' for my people's survival and self-esteem
I wouldn't fight for racist churches from the south, my nigga
I'd be fightin' to keep the occupation out, my nigga
You ever clock someone who talk shit, or look at you wrong?
Imagine if they shot at you, and was rapin' your moms
We're shooting at them, we're blowing up their houses, we're destroying their nation. If some one came to our country and did that, even if you didn't like Bush, would you sit around and let that happen, or would you fight to preserve all that you know?
o ya but things like blackwater and abu ghraib r okay cuz they isn't christian
Quote from: Gman61 on November 12, 2007, 09:12:56 PM
We havent murdered millions. We killed terrorists whose daily activities consisted of making car bombs and killing jews and shiites
i think i was going more into the millions that were killed during world war two HINT: we killed hundreds of thousands of innocent japanese
WE keep collateral damae to a minimum and we actually havent killed many innocent people. And we certanly havent killed any on purpose. And how dare you accuse our military of doing that
Quote from: Gman61 on November 12, 2007, 09:20:36 PM
WE keep collateral damae to a minimum and we actually havent killed many innocent people. And we certanly havent killed any on purpose. And how dare you accuse our military of doing that
You're an idiot. psyduck;
No i am not JMwhatever is saying that our military is murdering innocent civillians
Quote from: Gman61 on November 12, 2007, 09:20:36 PM
WE keep collateral damae to a minimum and we actually havent killed many innocent people. And we certanly havent killed any on purpose. And how dare you accuse our military of doing that
Of course they've done it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13974639/
"Soldiers say officers commanded them to ?kill all military age males? in Iraq"
All, means ALL
Quote from: Gman61 on November 12, 2007, 09:23:21 PM
No i am not JMwhatever is saying that our military is murdering innocent civillians
and you're saying that innocent people haven't been murdered by the us army i assume
Quote from: Gman61 on November 12, 2007, 09:23:21 PM
No i am not JMwhatever is saying that our military is murdering innocent civillians
JMV, it's three fucking letters. 290 it's 3 numbers. Not hard to remember.
You're blind if you can't see that killing of civilians is going on.
Quote from: Lawlz on November 12, 2007, 09:24:03 PM
and you're saying that innocent people haven't been murdered by the us army i assume
No i'm not. collateral damage happens in any war. I am saying they were never ordered to kill them. And they don't do it on purpose
Quote from: Gman61 on November 13, 2007, 04:30:22 AM
No i'm not. collateral damage happens in any war. I am saying they were never ordered to kill them. And they don't do it on purpose
I just provided a source from MSNBC claiming otherwise.
Which any nut job could have made up. Just like those files nbc tried to give to the press but then found out they were fake
Quote from: Gman61 on November 13, 2007, 12:16:26 PM
Which any nut job could have made up. Just like those files nbc tried to give to the press but then found out they were fake
NBC is the press, you dumbass.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/03/AR2006070301206.html
o wait here the press made up a court case
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2006/06/04/killing_of_civilians_in_iraq_highlights_stress_on_troops/
o wait lol this is fake too. the boston globe luvz to do fake stuff
Just do a quick search on Google, you'll find plenty of articles about civilians being intentionally killed by soldiers. There are apparently two YouTube videos that I got as results, but I'm in class, so I'm not going to watch.
Quote from: Gman61 on November 12, 2007, 09:20:36 PM
we actually havent killed many innocent people.
yeah only upwards of 70000 or so
Quote from: Gman61 on November 12, 2007, 09:20:36 PM
And we certanly havent killed any on purpose.
'course not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_killings)
Quote from: Gman61 on November 13, 2007, 12:16:26 PM
Which any nut job could have made up.
TRUST NO ONE
Quote from: Gman61 on November 12, 2007, 09:09:10 PM
Lets think about this. Even if they didnt have bio weapons we still should have gone. What kind of people are you that you think we shouldn't intervene to save hundreds of thousands of innocent lives? Saddam husein was a mass murderer. If you think this war is wrong then you must think WWII was wrong too.
Then why don't we save Rwanda?
Also, this war is nothing like WWII just to let you know
Quote from: Your Posting Rival on November 13, 2007, 01:13:14 PM
Then why don't we save Rwanda?
Also, this war is nothing like WWII just to let you know
It is on a MUCH smaller scale, yes. But saddam was a mass murderer. should we have just let him go on killing people?
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 02:04:40 PM
It is on a MUCH smaller scale, yes. But saddam was a mass murderer. should we have just let him go on killing people?
uh... sure
Bush doesn't give a damn about those people, you realize right? psyduck;
yeah he does............. he cared but 9/11 is what made us go
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:10:56 PM
yeah he does............. he cared but 9/11 is what made us go
To Iraq?
mindfuck; That's an even worse reason.
Iraq is were most of them were based. And saddam was funding them
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:14:23 PM
Iraq is where most of them were based. And saddam was funding them
So I heard we were looking for WMDs...
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:14:23 PM
Iraq is were most of them were based. And saddam was funding them
You're changing your reason for going into Iraq as much as Bush does.
No, there are a lot of reasons. I can't post all the reasons in one post
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:19:07 PM
No, there are a lot of reasons. I can't post all the reasons in one post
So is this like an infinity kind of thing?
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:19:07 PM
No, there are a lot of reasons. I can't post all the reasons in one post
Let me guess, one of the reasons was because they aren't Christians and we must make them Christians? ^______^
That had nothing to do with it. even if they were christians we still should have gone over.
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:22:27 PM
That had nothing to do with it. even if they were christians we still should have gone over.
Why?
For all the previous reasons I stated.
1. 9/11
2. mass murders
3. At the time there was reason to suspect WMD's. We havent found any yet
These are my personal reasons
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:24:50 PM
For all the previous reasons I stated.
1. 9/11
2. mass murders
3. At the time there was reason to suspect WMD's. We havent found any yet
These are my personal reasons
1. cool i didn't know iraq crashed planes into our buildings.
2. cool i don't recall any mass murders going on in bush's term. his father could have stopped that but he didn't. When we invaded I don't think it was going on anymore.
3. oopsies.
I DON'T LIKE PEOPLE WHO WEAR BARETS LET'S GO INVADE FRANCE FOR PERSONAL REASONS.
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:24:50 PM
For all the previous reasons I stated.
1. 9/11
2. mass murders
3. At the time there was reason to suspect WMD's. We havent found any yet
These are my personal reasons
I like how you didn't mention our other purpose: liberating Iraq. Liberation is nice, but how can you ignore all the things we're doing wrong at the same time?
WMDs were bullshit. It's pretty much assured that the WMD suspicion was just an excuse.
9/11...okay, so we figured out that Al Qaeda was behind the attacks. Are you forgetting that we went into Afghanistan first? Why'd we need to move into Iraq? We didn't even know for sure if Saddam was connected to Al Qaeda.
So are you saying that those are also the reasons that the Bush administration allows torture? And don't you try to say that waterboarding isn't torture, because it is.
I have no problem with torturing terrorists. If they are a innocet civillian than it is wrong
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:37:24 PM
I have no problem with torturing terrorists. If they are a innocet civillian than it is wrong
NEWS FLASH: It's a known fact that most of the prisoners in Abu Ghraib were just innocent civilians. Almost anyone could be picked as a prisoner just from any sort of tiny anonymous tip. And yes, they were tortured.
Define torture. Do you mean beaten or humiliated
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:37:24 PM
I have no problem with torturing terrorists. If they are a innocet civillian than it is wrong
They're easy to see because they're the ones wearing turbans amirite?
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:37:24 PM
I have no problem with torturing terrorists. If they are a innocet civillian than it is wrong
Your grammar is torturing me.
wow one misspelled word
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:41:24 PM
Define torture. Do you mean beaten or humiliated
QuoteTorture, according to international law, is "any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or emotional, is indirectly inflicted on a state for such purposes as obtaining from a third person information or a confession, punishing the state for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity."
Notice how it says "whether physical or emotional."
Are you aware of what waterboarding is? When you waterboard someone, first you nearly drown them. They pass out, and essentially think that they've died. But you're not that nice, so you revive them. You question them some more. If they don't answer, you repeat it.
Are you aware of the kind of psychological trauma that occurs from repeatedly forced onto the edge of death? Just imagine what it's like. Imagine...what if the next time they do it, you don't come back? What if they really kill you this time? How long does this go on for?
And just so you know, an awful lot of people actually
have died during waterboarding.
Quote from: Kazakhstan on November 15, 2007, 07:47:40 PM
Notice how it says "whether physical or emotional."
Are you aware of what waterboarding is? When you waterboard someone, first you nearly drown them. They pass out, and essentially think that they've died. But you're not that nice, so you revive them. You question them some more. If they don't answer, you repeat it.
Are you aware of the kind of psychological trauma that occurs from repeatedly forced onto the edge of death? Just imagine what it's like. Imagine...what if the next time they do it, you don't come back? What if they really kill you this time? How long does this go on for?
And just so you know, an awful lot of people actually have died during waterboarding.
This is going to sound mean but if they were planning a terrorist attack i don't feel much sympathy
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 08:07:38 PM
This is going to sound mean but if they were planning a terrorist attack i don't feel much sympathy
They aren't even getting trials. psyduck;
Also, I know, as a conservative Christian, that you might not respect these things called "human rights" but we need to respect them.
I do. But I feel when they try to comit mass murder they give up those rights. quit bringing my religion into this
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 08:10:39 PM
I do. But I feel when they try to comit mass murder they give up those rights. quit bringing my religion into this
Define they
How do we know exactly who these people are that differentiates them from innocent citizens?
anyone
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 08:14:38 PM
anyone
You missed my point...
I meant how are we supposed to pick terrorists out of a crowd. Especially when they're not even given a trial, it's not fair to them.
I agree on that
but they have evidence
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 08:17:40 PM
I agree on that
Then how the fuck can you agree that torture is alright?
We haven't even proven that they are terrorists and you want to torture them.
we have evidence
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 08:20:14 PM
we have evidence
Evidence is nothing without a trial. psyduck;
You can't lock a person up for 20 years just because you have evidence that they may have committed a murder.
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 08:07:38 PM
This is going to sound mean but if they were planning a terrorist attack i don't feel much sympathy
I don't think you understand. Almost every single one was innocent.
All of them?
Yeah I know
Given the outrageous number of prisoners, yes, the ratio of innocent to guilty was staggering.
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 08:20:14 PM
we have evidence
but we can't tell you what it is and yeah sorry but i don't think the defendant is trustworthy enough to know, either, so we'll get back to you on that