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General => Philosophy & Scholarly Debate => Topic started by: hobbit on September 24, 2013, 12:19:46 PM

Title: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: hobbit on September 24, 2013, 12:19:46 PM
http://breggin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=75&Itemid=133

http://leoniefennell.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/the-systemic-correlation-between-psychiatric-medications-and-unprovoked-mass-murder-in-america2.pdf

youtube video on the subject - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOJzZjK4XHk



Pharmaceutical companies willing admit that many medications, such as effexor, prozac, and zoloft, will cause patients to become suicidal while taking the medications even if suicidal thought were not present prior to taking the medication. If they willing admit that these chemicals can cause suicidal thoughts, then why would it be a stretch to say that they could cause homicidal thoughts? Why would boys unprovokenly take a gun to a school and shoot students and faculty? Why would a mother drown her own children on a whim? Is it the preexisting 'mental disorders' to blame? Or is the use of psychotropic drugs to blame?

Personally, i see no difference between  an alcoholic, coke head, and a person constantly on anti-depressants. all are using drugs to change their state of mind to cope with their everyday being. Being addicted to prescribed drugs is just as bad as being addicted to illicit ones. The pharmaceutical industry is a sham.

Prescription drugs kill more people than illegal ones
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/26/prescription-drugs-number-one-cause-preventable-death-in-us.aspx
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: silvertone on September 24, 2013, 12:20:31 PM
dont do drugs. ever.
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: hobbit on September 24, 2013, 12:29:51 PM
i smoke weed usually 3-5 times a week. i admit i am a druggie. but i can quit anytime i want, i swear!! i just have never wanted to quit.
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: snoorkel on September 24, 2013, 02:30:57 PM
yea bro for real.
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: PLEASEHELP1991 on September 24, 2013, 02:35:11 PM
do you think we need to institutionalize people that we deinstitutionalized thanks to antipsychotics?
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: ncba93ivyase on September 24, 2013, 02:49:05 PM
Quote from: hobbit on September 24, 2013, 12:19:46 PMThe pharmaceutical industry is a sham.
next you'll tell me jews run the banks and government
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: Boogus Epirus Aurelius on September 24, 2013, 03:19:50 PM
Quote from: hobbit on September 24, 2013, 12:19:46 PM
http://breggin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=75&Itemid=133

http://leoniefennell.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/the-systemic-correlation-between-psychiatric-medications-and-unprovoked-mass-murder-in-america2.pdf

youtube video on the subject - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOJzZjK4XHk



Pharmaceutical companies willing admit that many medications, such as effexor, prozac, and zoloft, will cause patients to become suicidal while taking the medications even if suicidal thought were not present prior to taking the medication. If they willing admit that these chemicals can cause suicidal thoughts, then why would it be a stretch to say that they could cause homicidal thoughts? Why would boys unprovokenly take a gun to a school and shoot students and faculty? Why would a mother drown her own children on a whim? Is it the preexisting 'mental disorders' to blame? Or is the use of psychotropic drugs to blame?

Personally, i see no difference between  an alcoholic, coke head, and a person constantly on anti-depressants. all are using drugs to change their state of mind to cope with their everyday being. Being addicted to prescribed drugs is just as bad as being addicted to illicit ones. The pharmaceutical industry is a sham.

Prescription drugs kill more people than illegal ones
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/26/prescription-drugs-number-one-cause-preventable-death-in-us.aspx


Blah blah blah, yadda yadda.
The problem, of course, is doctors with an especially twitchy prescription pen. Everything is over-diagnosed.

But, when prescribed correctly, those drug regimens are treating a physical or chemical problem. When prescribed correctly, it's no different than taking an aspirin for a headache or antibiotics for a virus.

Try telling someone who's legitimately suffering from depression that they're riding the same rails as a cokehead...
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: snoorkel on September 24, 2013, 04:08:19 PM
Quote from: Boogus Epirus Aurelius on September 24, 2013, 03:19:50 PM
Blah blah blah, yadda yadda.
The problem, of course, is doctors with an especially twitchy prescription pen. Everything is over-diagnosed.

But, when prescribed correctly, those drug regimens are treating a physical or chemical problem. When prescribed correctly, it's no different than taking an aspirin for a headache or antibiotics for a virus.

Try telling someone who's legitimately suffering from depression that they're riding the same rails as a cokehead...


they got the spell put on u brother
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: Boogus Epirus Aurelius on September 24, 2013, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: lifetrneds on September 24, 2013, 04:08:19 PM
they got the spell put on u brother

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/UHv0jUMuVqcms9637PtGF9H6o1_400.jpg)
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: Kalahari Inkantation on September 24, 2013, 05:39:04 PM
Quote from: Boogus Epirus Aurelius on September 24, 2013, 03:19:50 PM
Blah blah blah, yadda yadda.
The problem, of course, is doctors with an especially twitchy prescription pen. Everything is over-diagnosed.


this, and it's not even entirely their fault (though they could certainly take a number of steps to make the issue less severe)

the diagnostic criteria for psychological illnesses are so subjective and so poorly defined that virtually anyone who strolls into a psychiatric office can be easily diagnosed with any number of the vague symptoms for various diseases listed in the dsm, some of which are so ambiguously defined they're pretty much interchangeable with one another

and because there exist so few well developed and objective tests for the presence and severity of the various mental disorders, all a doctor can do is take their patient's word at face value (in a mere 45 minutes, no less) and throw pills in their general direction until they go away

that sort of thing doesn't happen with physical medicine because there are hundreds of (generally) well-established and objective tests we can use to detect the presence or absence of just about any common abnormality

i can't enter a physician's office complaining of some vague pain and suddenly have an indefinite prescription of vicodin placed on my doorstep they way i can complain of depression or some other weakly defined psychiatric disorder to a psychologist and suddenly find myself with an indefinite supply of escitalopram or w/e because it would be considered malpractice on the physician's part and drug abuse on mine, yet diagnostic psychology somehow gets a pass on exactly those sorts of unscientific practices

but because medical psychology is still a relatively new and developing field of scientific(?) study and because the mind is an inherently difficult thing to measure in any medically meaningful and objective manner, we're going to be stuck with this problem to some extent for the foreseeable future lol
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: PLEASEHELP1991 on September 24, 2013, 06:01:30 PM
Quote from: #rektron on September 24, 2013, 05:39:04 PM
this, and it's not even entirely their fault (though they could certainly take a number of steps to make the issue less severe)

the diagnostic criteria for psychological illnesses are so subjective and so poorly defined that virtually anyone who strolls into a psychiatric office can be easily diagnosed with any number of the vague symptoms for various diseases listed in the dsm, some of which are so ambiguously defined they're pretty much interchangeable with one another

and because there exist so few well developed and objective tests for the presence and severity of the various mental disorders, all a doctor can do is take their patient's word at face value (in a mere 45 minutes, no less) and throw pills in their general direction until they go away

that sort of thing doesn't happen with physical medicine because there are hundreds of (generally) well-established and objective tests we can use to detect the presence or absence of just about any common abnormality

i can't enter a physician's office complaining of some vague pain and suddenly have an indefinite prescription of vicodin placed on my doorstep they way i can complain of depression or some other weakly defined psychiatric disorder to a psychologist and suddenly find myself with an indefinite supply of escitalopram or w/e because it would be considered malpractice on the physician's part and drug abuse on mine, yet diagnostic psychology somehow gets a pass on exactly those sorts of unscientific practices

but because medical psychology is still a relatively new and developing field of scientific(?) study and because the mind is an inherently difficult thing to measure in any medically meaningful and objective manner, we're going to be stuck with this problem to some extent for the foreseeable future lol
i think the word you are looking for is psychiatry
psychologists do not have prescription privileges in most states lol
plus i would lay most of the blame on general practitioners over prescribing psychotropic drugs they have next to no knowledge on
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: The Hand That Fisted Everyone on September 24, 2013, 06:04:53 PM
and just like that te c's argument is moot way to look like a fool teck.
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: strongbad on September 24, 2013, 06:46:06 PM
Quote from: Boogus Epirus Aurelius on September 24, 2013, 03:19:50 PM
Blah blah blah, yadda yadda.
The problem, of course, is doctors with an especially twitchy prescription pen. Everything is over-diagnosed.

But, when prescribed correctly, those drug regimens are treating a physical or chemical problem. When prescribed correctly, it's no different than taking an aspirin for a headache or antibiotics for a virus.

Try telling someone who's legitimately suffering from depression that they're riding the same rails as a cokehead...

truth
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: hobbit on September 24, 2013, 06:48:52 PM
Quote from: Boogus Epirus Aurelius on September 24, 2013, 03:19:50 PM

Try telling someone who's legitimately suffering from depression that they're riding the same rails as a cokehead...
I was legitimately depressed from age 12-21. I wanted to kill myself almost everyday. but I got over it, not because of drugs but because I made a decision to change my life and put it in a new direction.

if you haven't already, read the articles I posted. the US takes more antidepressants than any country and has the greatest number of mass shooting. I haven't heard anything about it yet, but i'm willing to bet money that this navy yard shooter was on psychotropic drugs.
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: hobbit on September 24, 2013, 06:57:22 PM
And yes, I will acknowledge that these drugs do help some people. But if these companies came out and said that these tragedies were directly cause by their drugs, what would be your reaction? Would you still advocate for them? Are the rewards worth the cost?
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: Nyerp on September 24, 2013, 07:28:32 PM
wow (unproven) correlation is causation???? wow!!!! science is over
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: Boogus Epirus Aurelius on September 24, 2013, 07:37:01 PM
Quote from: hobbit on September 24, 2013, 06:48:52 PM
I was legitimately depressed from age 12-21. I wanted to kill myself almost everyday. but I got over it, not because of drugs but because I made a decision to change my life and put it in a new direction.

if you haven't already, read the articles I posted. the US takes more antidepressants than any country and has the greatest number of mass shooting. I haven't heard anything about it yet, but i'm willing to bet money that this navy yard shooter was on psychotropic drugs.


Meaning you went through the proper channels and were diagnosed, correct?
It's great you were able to turn your life around and everything, but some people physically can't.

As far as Aaron Alexis's case goes, the guy had a violent history, a few arrests and reportedly suffered from PTSD (not saying that that's a trigger or anything). If anything, the discourse there should be how fucking abysmal the VA is in offering support.

I'm not disputing the fact that our country is over-medicated, but I think it's a little too simple to just sit back and pass off the blame for these shootings and attacks on the medication. It's kind of silly to yank out one potential correlation and immediately condemn...
Title: Re: psychiatric drugs; liked to (almost) every mass killing in america since the 70s
Post by: strongbad on September 26, 2013, 12:54:21 PM
Quote from: hobbit on September 24, 2013, 06:48:52 PM
I was legitimately depressed from age 12-21. I wanted to kill myself almost everyday. but I got over it, not because of drugs but because I made a decision to change my life and put it in a new direction.

if you haven't already, read the articles I posted. the US takes more antidepressants than any country and has the greatest number of mass shooting. I haven't heard anything about it yet, but i'm willing to bet money that this navy yard shooter was on psychotropic drugs.

Correlation =/= causation