Does you think that we should give money to the decendents of slaves to help them get onto their feet and help them get a head start
I'd rather help out people I personally know; not someone I've never met that's suffering the damage of their great-great-great-great-great-grandmother's enslavement.
Quote from: Lawlz on July 29, 2007, 01:00:07 AM
I'd rather help out people I personally know;
why
Quote from: Lawlz on July 29, 2007, 01:17:26 AM
becuz they help me 2
But they don't really exist. psyduck;
Give them the money they deserve for their ancestry's unpaid, back breaking hard work.
Only for ones who can prove that they're descendants of slaves. Also only the descendants of actual slave owners should have to pay. Not some one whose family didn't even live here until the 20th century.
Finally, reparations should be based on the actual slaves and their work: a sum would be calculated and be evenly distributed to it's family. A larger family would get less per person. Finally, mixed races would also get less since not all their ancestors were slaves.
I think it's kind of ridiculous to pay them money. Nobody is responsible for some random person's actions. Forget the fact that they're related, otherwise it's the same as saying "Hey, your cousin did something terrible, so now you have to pay me money." Why should someone living in the modern age take the blame for something that they had absolutely NOTHING to do with? The simple excuse of "well...they're related" has no justification whatsoever. By that logic, I'd be responsible for my little cousins' actions, who live across the country. Actually, that analogy doesn't work quite as well, because I'd have to say that I've never met my cousins, don't even know their names, who they were, nor seen them before. And not to mention that our lives are separated by over 100 years. It makes it even more obscure of a claim.
I'm saying this as someone who does not have ancestors who were slaves, nor slaveowners.
Since I'm part Asian, let me put this in perspective for everyone here...it's as if I started saying "Hey, since my ancestors were worked to death building the railroads in America, I demand money from the white railroad workers."
Even I find that insane. Yes, something terrible happened in the past, but that was THEN. We didn't start slavery. And you can't punish the dead people who started it. But picking on the people who are alive today is wrong.
Quote from: Flameow on July 29, 2007, 01:26:42 PM
Why should someone living in the modern age take the blame for something that they had absolutely NOTHING to do with?
Why should someone be forced to live in poverty for the exact same reason?
Quote from: Flameow on July 29, 2007, 01:26:42 PM
But picking on the people who are alive today is wrong.
so how about we redistribute all wealth so no one thinks we're picking on the poor
Quote from: WrenchNinja on July 29, 2007, 08:17:30 AM
They should be given some money, but not a huge amount. Not to be racist, but just imagine what black people would do with all that money. They might buy tons of drugs and weapons. Or they will all get along since they became fortunate.
It's really a huge gamble.
Just cause you say not to be racist doesn't let you say racist things.
I think affirmative action has done that somewhat indirectly...
Quote from: Commodore Guff on July 29, 2007, 04:18:24 PM
Why should someone be forced to live in poverty for the exact same reason?
How are they being forced to live that way? Today I mean. Those living in poverty have at one time had a helping hand from the government. Everyone who has had help could of took the opportunity to help themselves. If they so desired. Just a point of discussion, not necessarily what I believe.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on July 29, 2007, 04:18:24 PM
Why should someone be forced to live in poverty for the exact same reason?
so how about we redistribute all wealth so no one thinks we're picking on the poor
There are social services, and programs that help out those in poverty. People do have the chance to turn their lives around. If they are blaming their current state of living on their ancestors being enslaved, then they really need to re-examine their lives. It's no use blaming their problems on something so distant, they clearly have to do something other than point toward the past as the root of their misfortune. There are people who came to this country as poor immigrants, like the Irish, and look where they are now. They're welcomed and well-to-do members of society and have worked to have better lives.
Quote from: Clair on July 30, 2007, 05:11:31 AM
How are they being forced to live that way? Today I mean. Those living in poverty have at one time had a helping hand from the government. Everyone who has had help could of took the opportunity to help themselves. If they so desired.
"Hello, Mr. Welfare. Here is a small amount of money which still keeps you well below the poverty line. Maybe if you went to a better school (label START: there aren't any around here, you'll need to move [also get the money to move {you need to go to a better school to get the money GOTO START}]) you wouldn't be in this situation. Granted, the town you never made a conscious decision to live in is stricken with epidemic levels of crime and violence, but maybe if you just had some more self-restraint (which rich folks don't need), you'd be out of this mess. :|"
Quote from: Flameow on July 30, 2007, 12:01:19 PM
There are social services, and programs that help out those in poverty.
yes and amazingly most still stay in poverty
Quote from: Flameow on July 30, 2007, 12:01:19 PM
People do have the chance to turn their lives around.
So, because a few of them, if they bust their balls for years on end, can get out of poverty, it's okay that the rest of them stay?
Sure, they could "try harder," but it doesn't seem all that fair when those in the middle class and above hardly need to at all.
Quote from: Flameow on July 30, 2007, 12:01:19 PM
It's no use blaming their problems on something so distant...
Even if it's clear that they are the cause? psyduck;
Quote from: Flameow on July 30, 2007, 12:01:19 PM
There are people who came to this country as poor immigrants, like the Irish, and look where they are now. They're welcomed and well-to-do members of society and have worked to have better lives.
SPOILER ALERT: Irish people are white.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on July 30, 2007, 12:28:36 PM
SPOILER ALERTr: Irish people are white.
Asians are yellow.
Guff, yes, welfare does suck but it does help a lot. Paying more would really help. As a Social Democrat I believe in welfare for the poor(as well as universal healthcare and stuff, but I don't go into that in this thread). However, from what I've seen around me--and i know it's not a national thing, a lot of the people receiving help from the state are not using the money properly.
I live in a community with a high percentage of minorities on public assistance. They are constantly buying new pairs of shoes, usually costing over $100 dollars. Every month they have a new phone. They are always buying new iPods. As I drive through "The Point" I notice that they are driving new, expensive cars. Yet, at school they qualify for free and reduced lunch.
We need more welfare, but we need to make sure they will use the money to help them and not just buy nice luxury items that other people can't even afford.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on July 30, 2007, 12:28:36 PM
SPOILER ALERT: Irish people are white.
Okay, I'll use Flameow's example but for Italians and Greeks. They weren't considered white by the governemnt until very recently. They had a lot of trouble working shit jobs as virtual slaves in the past. And yes, if you get paid it can still qualify as slavery if the wages are low enough.
Quote from: JMV290 on July 30, 2007, 12:37:14 PM
We need more welfare, but we need to make sure they will use the money to help them and not just buy nice luxury items that other people can't even afford.
okay, cool
How?
Quote from: JMV290 on July 30, 2007, 12:38:58 PM
They weren't considered white by the governemnt until very recently.
psyduck;
Do you really think the government's classification of an ethnicity influences how they're treated?
An employer sees a black guy. It's obvious that the man is black. Who knows what the employer thinks. Then an Italian comes in. Then a Greek. Can the employer even tell the difference (hell, what if an Irishman comes in later, as well)? If not, it's unlikely that he will automatically assume that Mr. Italian loves pasta and Mr. Greek philosophizes (Mr. Irishman eats potatoes).
Quote from: JMV290 on July 30, 2007, 12:38:58 PM
And yes, if you get paid it can still qualify as slavery if the wages are low enough.
okay so maybe that's the current situation among some of the minorities this whole thing is about
Or as others would say, there's services to help them out, they could try harder, etc.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on July 30, 2007, 12:48:11 PM
okay, cool
How?
I don't know. I guess doing something similar to a food stamps program would help.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on July 30, 2007, 12:48:11 PM
psyduck;
Do you really think the government's classification of an ethnicity influences how they're treated?
An employer sees a black guy. It's obvious that the man is black. Who knows what the employer thinks. Then an Italian comes in. Then a Greek. Can the employer even tell the difference (hell, what if an Irishman comes in later, as well)? If not, it's unlikely that he will automatically assume that Mr. Italian loves pasta and Mr. Greek philosophizes (Mr. Irishman eats potatoes).
(http://img9.imagepile.net/img9/150noirish.jpg) (http://img9.imagepile.net/)
It seems to have happened in the past. As for immigrants, if I were to hear a man with an Italian accent I wouldn't be like "He must be British". Having a man apply with a Greek last name would pretty much give out the fact that he's Greek. In modern U.S.A it's difficult to tell where a person is from, but in the early 1900's, even until shortly after world war II it wasn't that hard to differentiate Greeks from, maybe French people.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on July 30, 2007, 12:48:11 PMokay so maybe that's the current situation among some of the minorities this whole thing is about
Or as others would say, there's services to help them out, they could try harder, etc.
Yes, that is a major problem. Something needs to be done. Corporations are taking advantage of minorites. They have no sense of social duty. Why do you think they don't think twice about hiring illegal immigrants for far below minimum wage?
I still don't understand how slavery suddenly determined how people are living today...can someone explain this idea?
Quote from: Flameow on July 30, 2007, 01:04:28 PM
I still don't understand how slavery suddenly determined how people are living today...can someone explain this idea?
Southern bitterness about losing the slaves led to the Jim Crow laws, making it hard for African-Americans to assimilate until the 1970's.
It still has an effect. Although there are some cultural things too. Such as the comments and beliefs that being smart "is white", resulting in many young African-Americans not learning at the potential they have.
Quote from: Flameow on July 30, 2007, 01:04:28 PM
I still don't understand how slavery suddenly determined how people are living today...can someone explain this idea?
so if all african americans come over by their own free will would they still be the majority of those living in the ghettos? psyduck;
Quote from: JMV290 on July 30, 2007, 12:59:37 PM
It seems to have happened in the past.
Yes, and that was predominantly during the peak times of Irish migration. Countries are generally reluctant to immediately allowing immigrants to assimilate.
However, after slave ships essentially disappeared into the 19th century, most blacks were born here.
Quote from: JMV290 on July 30, 2007, 12:59:37 PM
As for immigrants, if I were to hear a man with an Italian accent I wouldn't be like "He must be British".
Okay, cool. But most citizens are not immigrants. Blacks are not immigrants.
Quote from: JMV290 on July 30, 2007, 12:59:37 PM
Having a man apply with a Greek last name would pretty much give out the fact that he's Greek.
okay cool
not all greeks have greek last names
even then, what assumptions will you make about him? do you think he's going to steal your stereo? psyduck;
Quote from: JMV290 on July 30, 2007, 12:59:37 PM
In modern U.S.A it's difficult to tell where a person is from...
But it's easy to see that someone is black.
Quote from: WrenchNinja on July 29, 2007, 08:17:30 AM
They should be given some money, but not a huge amount. Not to be racist, but just imagine what black people would do with all that money. They might buy tons of drugs and weapons. Or they will all get along since they became fortunate.
It's really a huge gamble.
It's only like that because those people grew up in the streets with drugs and guns and such, but what if that wasn't the case? Shouldn't we focus on getting those people out of the streets (and into actual homes)?
Fuck no. I didn't enslave them. Whatever the fuck my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather did to their great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather is none of my concern.
Quote from: C.Mongler on August 08, 2007, 06:04:05 AM
Fuck no. I didn't enslave them. Whatever the fuck my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather did to their great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather is none of my concern.
You're the first person to bring this up. Congrats.
You know there are still slaves in America today?
Quote from: Mariomaniac21 on August 11, 2007, 09:09:04 AM
Thats just dumb,why would we pay for people who can get jobs and pay for their own life? psyduck;
And it's not the current Americans that enslaved people, their ancestors did. Why should they pay for their mistakes?
ignore previous posts and make retarded posts of your own
Quote from: Mariomaniac21 on August 11, 2007, 01:40:31 PM
So? I don't want to fucking quote, big deal.
im talkin bout guff refuting ur dum claim :|
Quote from: JMV290 on July 30, 2007, 12:38:58 PM
Okay, I'll use Flameow's example but for Italians and Greeks. They weren't considered white by the governemnt until very recently. They had a lot of trouble working shit jobs as virtual slaves in the past. And yes, if you get paid it can still qualify as slavery if the wages are low enough.
I'm Italian, but I'm not working in de facto slave conditions.
Quote from: Zeta on September 17, 2007, 02:00:18 PM
I'm Italian, but I'm not working in de facto slave conditions.
I am too. I was referring to the past.
Quote from: JMV290 on September 17, 2007, 03:02:31 PM
I am too. I was referring to the past.
So that means they should get money because our ancestors got fucked by someone else's ancestors?
Quote from: Zeta on September 17, 2007, 05:18:20 PM
So that means they should get money because our ancestors got fucked by someone else's ancestors?
No, I didn't say that.
Quote from: xXTheHaunted on September 21, 2007, 10:17:49 AM
No
Why not? Elaborate. That is what serious discussion is all about.
Quote from: Pookie Foof on September 21, 2007, 10:30:27 AM
Why not? Elaborate. That is what serious discussion is all about.
Ok, because its not our fault that their ancestors were slaves, plus the world would be totally different today. With out slavery down south we would never have had a civil war and who knows how America could have turned out.
My family is going through a very hard time but do we get help from the government for being white? No. Why should you get paid for being black?
Slavery is over. It's been over for a century. We should all be equal now. Affirmative action, reparations...It's all bullshit.
Quote from: xXTheHaunted on September 21, 2007, 11:04:33 AM
Ok, because its not our fault that their ancestors were slaves, plus the world would be totally different today. With out slavery down south we would never have had a civil war and who knows how America could have turned out.
If we would've just let the south secede, America would still be a great nation, and only the confederacy would suck. powerofone;
Only if I get reparations for the time they through out my ancestors saying "No Irish need apply."
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 03:39:41 PM
Only if I get reparations for the time they through out my ancestors saying "No Irish need apply."
The Irish were enslaved, too? psyduck;
Quote from: Commodore Guff on October 04, 2007, 03:43:12 PM
The Irish were enslaved, too? psyduck;
Nah, just refused work.
And we should give the Oakies some reparations too, I guess.
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 03:45:37 PM
Nah, just refused work.
And we should give the Oakies some reparations too, I guess.
Yeah, which has nothing to do with
slavery reparations.
why
Quote from: Commodore Guff on October 04, 2007, 03:48:01 PM
Yeah, which has nothing to do with slavery reparations.
why
I think the bottom line for me is that the ancestors of slaves should have no need for reparations. Why would they? Because their great great great great great great great grandma was a slave? And therefore they're behind on money as opposed to the rest of us? immigrants coming into the country have it harder than they do now. It's not my problem that they'er unable to get over the fact that their family members were enslaved however many years ago. And you know, if it's some emotional shit or black rights or whatnot, I don't really care, go ahead and fight for that power. But I do not see in any way shape or form why any descendent of a slave would need money any more than the rest of us.
And haven't any of you read Thoreau? I mean, I disagree with the man on a lot of levels, but if there's one smart thing he says it's that we can't live in the past and we can't live in the future, all we've got is the now. So maybe if those slave descendents who are fighting for this could get off their greedy asses and go get some sort of a degree or some other nice job, as opposed to dwelling on the uber-past, we wouldn't have this problem. I'm not saying to just forget about slavery, but it's gone now, in America at least. Nothing can change the past, all we can do is help the current generations, right?
Yeah, well I say screw them, they don't need our money, they need to get on with their lives and establish their own identity.
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:06:05 PM
I think the bottom line for me is that the ancestors of slaves should have no need for reparations. Why would they? Because their great great great great great great great grandma was a slave? And therefore they're behind on money as opposed to the rest of us? immigrants coming into the country have it harder than they do now. It's not my problem that they'er unable to get over the fact that their family members were enslaved however many years ago. And you know, if it's some emotional shit or black rights or whatnot, I don't really care, go ahead and fight for that power. But I do not see in any way shape or form why any descendent of a slave would need money any more than the rest of us.
So you're arguing that slavery had absolutely no economic effects on blacks and that they're perfectly well off?
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:06:05 PM
And haven't any of you read Thoreau?
No, but Captain Underpants is pretty good.
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:06:05 PM
I mean, I disagree with the man on a lot of levels, but if there's one smart thing he says it's that we can't live in the past and we can't live in the future, all we've got is the now.
Okay, let's not prosecute criminals. After all, their crimes are in the past.
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:06:05 PM
So maybe if those slave descendents who are fighting for this could get off their greedy asses and go get some sort of a degree or some other nice job, as opposed to dwelling on the uber-past, we wouldn't have this problem.
Who's greedier? The person living in poverty with poor access to education and even worse access to good jobs, or the well-off person that tells the former to screw off?
also how many times have you worked your way out of poverty
were you born in a crime-ridden neighborhood to a poor family, which, incidentally, is statistically far more likely to be a single parent (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Family/CDA02-04.cfm)
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:06:05 PM
I'm not saying to just forget about slavery, but it's gone now, in America at least.
Nothing can change the past, all we can do is help the current generations, right?
Yet its effects live on.
Okay, let's help the current generation of blacks living in poverty because of the enslavement of their ancestors?
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:06:05 PM
Yeah, well I say screw them, they don't need our money, they need to get on with their lives and establish their own identity.
I'm pretty sure they do need the money. Poverty sucks like that.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on October 04, 2007, 04:16:06 PM
So you're arguing that slavery had absolutely no economic effects on blacks and that they're perfectly well off?No, but Captain Underpants is pretty good.Okay, let's not prosecute criminals. After all, their crimes are in the past.Who's greedier? The person living in poverty with poor access to education and even worse access to good jobs, or the well-off person that tells the former to screw off?
also how many times have you worked your way out of poverty
were you born in a crime-ridden neighborhood to a poor family, which, incidentally, is statistically far more likely to be a single parent (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Family/CDA02-04.cfm)Yet its effects live on.
Okay, let's help the current generation of blacks living in poverty because of the enslavement of their ancestors?I'm pretty sure they do need the money. Poverty sucks like that.
And even after all that, you failt to see my main point.
Maybe my mind's just in the whole "Give a man to fish/teach a man to fish" prospect, but I'm totally totally against giving the descendents of slaves reparations, and it's not just because I'm a bitch lying around with tons of money to give away, but don't want to. How the fuck would giving the descendents of slaves help? "Oh, the poor black people in the ghetto will be able to better their lives and then there will be no more pore people."
Yeah, well, here's an idea- how about we help the
poverty, as opposed to the descendents of slaves. No matter what we do there will be poverty. Give the porrest people a good amount of money- Uh oh, now those little guys are scraping up for food. Help them.. oops, now that couple over there seems to be out of business.
The one thing that will make me eat my words is some sort of a statistic saying that the majority of people in poverty now are descendents of slaves, or even if they make up a good portion of those in poverty.
Go ahead, find it for me.
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:52:24 PM
And even after all that, you failt to see my main point.
okay so what is it
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:52:24 PM
Maybe my mind's just in the whole "Give a man to fish/teach a man to fish"
okay so why aren't you doing either, and how exactly are you supposed to teach those living in an area with a lack of good job opportunities and education
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:52:24 PM
How the fuck would giving the descendents of slaves help?
for one, they'd probably have more money
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:52:24 PM
Yeah, well, here's an idea- how about we help the poverty, as opposed to the descendents of slaves.
okay, and that's what i'd prefer
but i'm arguing on the merits of slavery reparations, not socialism
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:52:24 PM
No matter what we do there will be poverty.
Give the porrest people a good amount of money- Uh oh, now those little guys are scraping up for food. Help them.. oops, now that couple over there seems to be out of business.
therefore let's not do anything about it given that it's inevitable
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 04:52:24 PM
The one thing that will make me eat my words is some sort of a statistic saying that the majority of people in poverty now are descendents of slaves, or even if they make up a good portion of those in poverty.
Go ahead, find it for me.
Uh, I think it might be just a tad more relevant to prove the converse. psyduck;
also god damn respond on a point-by-point basis rather than cherry picking those you wish to respond to
ps your numerous typographical and spelling errors make you look like a complete tool
Sorry I look like a tool to you Guff, the sad truth is that I'm just lazy. I honestly don't want to argue with you anymore, consider it a win in your book if it makes you happy, but I simply do not agree with you at all, guess I'm just not human enough. Darn.
So anyway, yeah,I 'm not going to argue anymore because I realise there's not a chance in hell I can get you to admit I'm right, and there's not a chance in hell you'll make me believe that the decendents of slaves deserve reparations.
It's pretty much a pointless battle in my eyes, but consider my opinion posted.
I do not think the descendents of slaves should be given reparations.
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 06:35:12 PM
I honestly don't want to argue with you anymore...
sorry next time i'll try not to expect debate in serious discussion
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 06:35:12 PM
So anyway, yeah,I 'm not going to argue anymore because I realise there's not a chance in hell I can get you to admit I'm right, and there's not a chance in hell you'll make me believe that the decendents of slaves deserve reparations.
uh there is no "right" in this situation, it's a matter of opinion
Quote from: Skankity-Slut-Slut on October 04, 2007, 06:35:12 PM
I do not think the descendents of slaves should be given reparations.
[glow=red,2,300]I think you're a tool.[/glow]
I'm black and I personally think the idea is just stupid.
Why in the hell should we get money for what our great great great grandparents did?
I'm sorry, but the "It heals our wounds" crap, is total bullshit. nigro;
Quote from: FULL_METAL_RYDER2 on October 06, 2007, 08:15:52 PM
I'm black and I personally think the idea is just stupid.
Why in the hell should we get money for what our great great great grandparents did?
I'm sorry, but the "It heals our wounds" crap, is total bullshit. nigro;
hey i got an idea
lets ignore guffs posts that basically answered ur post ^_^
do u start every post with telling ur ethnicity
i think ill join in on the fun
im a jew
Quote from: FULL_METAL_RYDER2 on October 06, 2007, 08:15:52 PM
I'm black and I personally think the idea is just stupid.
where did you grow up and where do you live currently
Quote from: Andrew1911 on October 06, 2007, 11:26:54 PM
im a jew
im a swamp monster
ima admin.
Stop being idiots, seriously.
I don't think they should be reimbersed
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 07:59:46 PM
I don't think they should be reimbersed
What a surprise.
WTF a ton of other people don't think so either. I don't think you should make someone pay for what thier anncestors did
Quote from: Gman61 on November 15, 2007, 08:12:00 PM
I don't think you should make someone pay for what thier anncestors did
the bible does
I think that's just stupid.
I hate how a lot of black youth of today thinks they're under white oppression or something. No one living has been a slave back then, and anyone below 40-50 hasn't dealt with very much segregation problems.
Hey hey. White men have been slaves too. The term slave comes from slav, because slavs of east Europe were used as slaves once. Every race has been oppressed in the past.
I want what Martin Luther King wanted: pure equality. It really makes me sick how a lot of the black teenagers get away with saying racist things to the white kids. Affirmitive action is bullshit.
Make the government pay for them. It wouldn't be a problem at all if we hadn't sunk a few trillion dollars into invading Iraq.
It seems to me that this should be Europe's problem. Because aren't they the ones that originally started bringing slaves to America?
Quote from: Houdini on December 29, 2007, 12:25:15 PM
Make the government pay for them. It wouldn't be a problem at all if we hadn't sunk a few trillion dollars into invading Iraq.
Why should the government waste even more money on something as stupid as this? What happened over 5 generations ago shouldn't matter to people today.
Quote from: Lawlz on December 30, 2007, 11:29:48 PM
Why should the government waste even more money on something as stupid as this? What happened over 5 generations ago shouldn't matter to people today.
Well, you do have to consider the possibility that the slavery and discrimination of their ancestors has hindered them financially. For the most part, though, it is silly. My point is more that the war in Iraq is ridiculous.
Quote from: Commodore Guff on July 29, 2007, 04:18:24 PM
Why should someone be forced to live in poverty for the exact same reason?
Your logic makes no sense. That arguement backs up BOTH sides of this. And it's true, these middle/upper classed people shouldn't have to pay for their ancestors actions. It's true that people with "slave heritage" shouldn't either. The people with money shouldn't prosper while others suffer. But this has always been the case, and not just in the case of African Americans whose ancestors were slaves. Some will prosper, and others will live hard lives. Welcome to the real world. Making some people give money to others won't solve it until we hit a completion point where everybody has the same amount of money. And then that's communism, which not many seem to approve of, mainly because their glasses are so fogged of their own problems that they cannot see how shitty capitalism is, or in the case of upper class, they just deny that there are flaws in this way of government. But where the hell am I going with this?
Case in point, their problems are dreadful, but forcing people who have ancestors who should pay doesn't really solve anything. There's nothing you can do in one aspect of our flaws if you don't fix them all.
Quote from: Avtomat Kalashnikova on December 31, 2007, 01:22:16 PMBut where the hell am I going with this?
i agree
Quote from: Avtomat Kalashnikova on December 31, 2007, 01:22:16 PM
Case in point, their problems are dreadful, but forcing people who have ancestors who should pay doesn't really solve anything.
i think most people have ancestors
Quote from: Avtomat Kalashnikova on December 31, 2007, 01:22:16 PM
There's nothing you can do in one aspect of our flaws if you don't fix them all.
what
Quote from: Houdini on December 30, 2007, 11:45:59 PM
Well, you do have to consider the possibility that the slavery and discrimination of their ancestors has hindered them financially. For the most part, though, it is silly. My point is more that the war in Iraq is ridiculous.
If it was their parents, maybe. Grandparents would be stretching it. Great great great great great great grandparents? What happened to them has no bearing on what a failure a person is today. psyduck;
Quote from: LiveOnTheEdge on December 30, 2007, 11:23:58 PM
It seems to me that this should be Europe's problem. Because aren't they the ones that originally started bringing slaves to America?
Yes, but they also stopped well before America.
Quote from: reefer on July 29, 2007, 12:45:47 AM
Does you think that we should give money to the decendents of slaves to help them get onto their feet and help them get a head start
I think it's a bit too late