it's true that shadow of the colossus and zelda both have giant empty overworlds

[Kalahari Inkantation]

but they very clearly serve entirely different purposes

sotc's overworld is designed specifically to be a barren, forgotten, intentionally secluded wasteland, serene and peaceful and completely undisturbed by humanity for some immeasurable amount of time, inhabited exclusively by the freely-roaming colossi and some mysterious supernatural being with questionable morals

wander's deliberate trespassing upon the forbidden land is a huge part of what makes his motives suspect

sotc's minimalistic plot would contradict itself if for some reason the forgotten land were populated or well developed, because then it clearly wouldn't be "forgotten"

furthermore, because you know there's nothing but nice scenery in sotc's world, the player can basically just beeline from boss to boss without wasting significant time (the game even encourages this with the navigation-via-sword-compass mechanic)

in the case of most 3d zeldas, we're meant to believe that hyrule is a vivid, well-developed landscape, teeming with life and entirely worth saving, when the reality is there are never more than a few tiny pockets of civilization among vast expanses of nothing in all but the earliest 3d zeldas

the games consistently set your expectations high for large and lively overworlds worth exploring thoroughly, and then completely let you down by wasting player time with giant, utterly pointless expanses of emptiness

ocarina of time and majora's mask are the only 3d zeldas that manage to make it explicitly clear that civilization has much to lose should it fall to evil forces

as for twilight princess/wind waker/skyward sword, there are so few npcs and so few noteworthy detours (beyond five-minute piece of heart and item upgrade challenges) that it's as if the settings are already post-apocalyptic

i guess the post-apocalyptic theme is arguably justifiable (but still tedious) in ww, but the other 3d zeldas have no excuse whatsoever

in other words, sotc's barren overworld >>>>>>>>>>>> the effectively barren overworlds found in modern 3d zeldas

disclaimer: i'm not taking botw into consideration at all as i haven't played it yet lol

[Mando Pandango]

I think Wind Waker did a good job of showing a world that had been destroyed by the wrath of the gods, leaving little civilization behind. If the fast travel mechanic was better, I'd have no problem with it whatsoever. I'm pretty sure they fixed that in the HD remake, anyway.

Skyward Sword's overworld is one of the many things about it that's a fucking joke, though.

[TooB]

Ocarinas over world is just as empty as twilights.

It's just smaller so less time is used in traveling

[Kalahari Inkantation]

Ocarinas over world is just as empty as twilights.

It's just smaller so less time is used in traveling

if oot's world is smaller than tp's but has roughly equal noteworthy content, then oot's world is by definition more dense and less empty lol

oot's is maybe a little bit on the empty side but it's not nearly as bad as tp's is

if tp had a smaller world with oot's density i'd be less bothered by it because less of my time would be wasted with boring traveling

[TooB]

Ocarinas over world is just as empty as twilights.

It's just smaller so less time is used in traveling

if oot's world is smaller than tp's but has roughly equal noteworthy content, then oot's world is by definition more dense and less empty lol

oot's is maybe a little bit on the empty side but it's not nearly as bad as tp's is

if tp had a smaller world with oot's density i'd be less bothered by it because less of my time would be wasted with boring traveling

I guess so.

I got a post to make in the unpopular opinion thread though.

[Kalahari Inkantation]

I think Wind Waker did a good job of showing a world that had been destroyed by the wrath of the gods, leaving little civilization behind. If the fast travel mechanic was better, I'd have no problem with it whatsoever. I'm pretty sure they fixed that in the HD remake, anyway.

Skyward Sword's overworld is one of the many things about it that's a fucking joke, though.

skyward sword is the worst offender, easily, and i had thought it was impossible for an overworld world to be more tedious to navigate than ww's

i mean skyward sword's has almost literally nothing

the game would be 2x as enjoyable if travelling were exclusively done via a warp system

[Mando Pandango]

the game would be 2x as enjoyable if travelling were exclusively done via a warp system

honestly. They could have easily just put everything else that was in the sky in walking vicinity of Skyloft. Then for whatever boss that was in the sky (I barely remember this), they could've still just stuck you on your loftwing, right? Would have been a fun extra little thing.

Or, you know, actually created a whole society and overworld in the sky like everybody was anticipating.

[Hiro]

i don't think any elda game besides botw was ever intended to nor marketed as having a living open world though, so criticism on that seems a bit silly
some people say botw's world is empty, which to me is baffling because what the fuck no it's not, at all

[Mando Pandango]

Maybe not, but just about every Zelda game since the very first has been built on the concept of exploring a large map. As time has gone on, particularly in the 3D entries, it seems like they've been filling those big worlds with less and less stuff.

And then you get Skyward Sword.

[Hiro]

eh, not really

[Mando Pandango]

good argument thanks

[C.Mongler]

both styles of overworlds are boring even if being guised as 'art' or 'intentional'

[spoiler]this is practically the same argument that trico never doing what you say is immersive lol[/spoiler]

[Hiro]

i never had much difficulty getting trico to do what i wanted  ¯\_(ãƒ,,)_/¯

[C.Mongler]

i stopped playing the game 3 hours in because i was tired of knowing exactly what to do and the game not wanting to help me actually do it, so to each their own i guess lol


ill always wonder what awaited me at the end of the story

[Kalahari Inkantation]

this is practically the same argument that trico never doing what you say is immersive lol

there can be a healthy balance between immersion and fun

that would be a perfectly valid argument if you were to replace trico with agro, who strikes that balance well