And this is partially why I view religion as a bad thing

[Bolivian Army]

yeah it was stupid what you said

oh yeah you sure showed me what with the pointing out of the radicals and whatnot

i honestly wouldn't have a problem if you said "this person is silly" instead of "religion is silly and this is one of the reasons why" but instead you take a leader in the church who is basically saying that he believes that it's natural for humans to believe in god (at least, i would assume that's what he was saying, if he was actually putting theists above atheists then he would be contradicting the bible) and go from there to holocaust pictures to religious wack-jobs misconstruing his words and start rounding people up for a sinner roast

so it seems to me like you have a beef with silly people and not silly religion 

[Daddy]

oh yeah you sure showed me what with the pointing out of the radicals and whatnot

i honestly wouldn't have a problem if you said "this person is silly" instead of "religion is silly and this is one of the reasons why" but instead you take a leader in the church who is basically saying that he believes that it's natural for humans to believe in god (at least, i would assume that's what he was saying, if he was actually putting theists above atheists then he would be contradicting the bible) and go from there to holocaust pictures to religious wack-jobs misconstruing his words and start rounding people up for a sinner roast

so it seems to me like you have a beef with silly people and not silly religion 

uh the last post you made was:

lets not bring those racist backwater hicks into thisyeah the bib-

oh fudge i forgot that doesnt count
huh

I found there was not any content worth replying to.


With this, you are right that it's one person saying it. However he is the leader in the churchââ,¬â€œThe same thing people kill for and die for to protect (see the crusades, inquisition, etc.) His claims provide justification for the people under him to commit the crime.

The holocaust was justified by The Nazis labeling Jews as subhuman. It's completely related to a cardinal doing what a Nazi did. Have any other church officials higher up than him came out to argue against what he said? Like I said, as long as they are supporting or otherwise not dismissing the comments and actions of their constituents they are just as guilty.



The silly people get their silly ideas from their silly book and silly religion.

[Det in F♯ Major]

Have any other church officials higher up than him came out to argue against what he said?

I doubt you've bothered to check.   

[Daddy]

I doubt you've bothered to check.   

oh i have. i've found nothing.

[guff]

Just wondering...(This is directed more at JMV, but it's really for everyone who doesn't believe in God.)

Why, JMV, do you bitch about religion? I mean, you don't have one. If you really think religion is such a bad thing, then why do you pick at it and say it's stupid instead of actually getting to the problem? You solve nothing except pissing people off and showing the Christians just how little they know of the Bible. But you obviously know very little of the meaning IN the Bible, while you could probably name off verse after verse of "bullshit" at any given moment. You look at the Bible as something that's supposed to have some hidden key in it about what's really going on, but since you can't find it, you condemn the entire thing to falacy. You look at our leaders and find every single fault and call us all lying bastards. Yet, you still seem to have no grounds to be able to make assumptions where anyone will actually care.

Seriously, JMV, why must you attack something that you've never truly experienced? Is it because it just seems "uncool"? Because many of the people who follow it only have one comeback, and that's "Well, you're going to hell, so bleh!"? Or is it because you know that there's still a possiblility that we're right, and you're not?

Nothing's been proven yet.

blah blah personal attacks blah blah insults blah blah jmv why are you so hostile 

[Daddy]

Whoa thanks for quoting that Guff, I missed that post. I gotta reply to it now.

[Daddy]

Just wondering...(This is directed more at JMV, but it's really for everyone who doesn't believe in God.)

Why, JMV, do you bitch about religion? I mean, you don't have one.

Exactly. I don't have one.  Why should I have to live with the thought that a religious nut might decide to force their ideals upon me?
Several places in the Bible, Qur'an, Torah, and plenty of other religious texts call for killing of non-believers. Clergy make comments about atheists being less than human.  Churches hold protests saying "death to fags', "death to those who don't believe", etc. You have people like George Tiller being gunned down because his work clashes with the views of another sect of a religion.

You have legislation being passed to deny people the right to have their love be equally recognized by the government because of religion. Historically it was okay to own slaves and religion (curse of Ham) was used for its justification.  Beating of wives was justified by the words of Genesis.

It's a real threat to me and any other atheist.  It's a threat to you too, maybe another sect of Christians think you're a not believer and decide to do God's work and kill you.  Maybe some baptist will decide that all Catholics need to die for "idolatry"

Oh, and you can't forget the Muslims. Even Hindus aren't innocent. Their beliefs allow for the caste system, severe human rights violations, and oppression.

If you really think religion is such a bad thing, then why do you pick at it and say it's stupid instead of actually getting to the problem? You solve nothing except pissing people off and showing the Christians just how little they know of the Bible.

You fail to recognize that problem right there.  The problem is that Christians know little of the Bible. They know little of their religion's past. They follow it but they don't know it themselves. They generally don't try to think about it for themselves. Why? Maybe because the psychological abuse of being threatened with eternal suffering for merely thinking a doubt about God.

But you obviously know very little of the meaning IN the Bible, while you could probably name off verse after verse of "bullshit" at any given moment. You look at the Bible as something that's supposed to have some hidden key in it about what's really going on, but since you can't find it, you condemn the entire thing to falacy.

The meaning in the Bible is the story of a selfish, malevolent, narcissistic, genocidal maniac whose self-esteem is apparently worse than that of the average Boyager and claims to offer free will yet punishes those who don't accept and love him.

Realistically the meaning is just a collection of stories borrowed from past civilizations. The moral code and fear of punishment being a way to keeping large tribes of nomadic shepherds in line.  In a time where war is a constant threat and the known world was mostly fertile river banks in the desert keeping unity and control amongst similar people is best done with the promise of eternal reward and not complying is met with eternal punishment.  That's all there is to it. It was a convenient tool of control in a time where agriculture and civilization were trying to get a foothold.

You look at our leaders and find every single fault and call us all lying bastards. Yet, you still seem to have no grounds to be able to make assumptions where anyone will actually care.

I've never said all religious people are lying bastards. I've maybe said they are all delusional and I stand by that.

Seriously, JMV, why must you attack something that you've never truly experienced?

What have I never experienced? The folly that everything will be okay if I just believe in a God and if I don't I suffer?  The indoctrination by parents and a few teachers that such was true and the feelings of guilt for rejecting "the love of Christ" when I decided to think for myself? Having something I was told that was true tell me that doubting it would result in me suffering for eternity?

Is it because it just seems "uncool"?

us atheists drink blood cocktails and pop our collars and play smack the bible because it's just that uncool.
No, it's an illogical mental scar on society.

Because many of the people who follow it only have one comeback, and that's "Well, you're going to hell, so bleh!"?

Their lack of proof and when confronted for evidence they bring up logical fallacies, try to dismiss the burden of proof, or basically go "lalalalalalala I can't hear you have an open mind" while refusing to even think that maybe their indoctrination is wrong. I'm almost certain that had you been born in Saudi Arabia instead of the southern US you'd be a Muslim.  Had you been in New England and not the south you'd be a Catholic. You've convinced yourself that your beliefs about your god, your morals, your afterlife, your everything are right because the holy book says so. You ignore that you may have argued otherwise had you been born elsewhere.

Or is it because you know that there's still a possiblility that we're right, and you're not?

lol
I have no doubt that I am wrong about the Abrahamic god. The stories and arguments have all been told in older religions.
The only possibility of there being a God would be a non-interventional god of a pantheistic sense of being the universe itself–and that being interpreted as a literal(as opposed to the usual metaphorical god) and that is slightly less plausible to me than us being in a simulated reality.

Nothing's been proven yet.

The burden of proof is only needed to be "beyond a reasonable doubt" for the law. A similar standard is fine for religion. You can't prove something doesn't exist only that it exists thus it's your burden.

Evolution itself has been proven. It has been observed. Creation has neither been proven nor observed.
Evidence of the big bang has been observed. While it may not have been "proven" in the sense you may mean, it has been "proven beyond a reasonable doubt".

[Det in F♯ Major]

Why should I have to live with the thought that a religious nut might decide to force their ideals upon me?
Several places in the Bible, Qur'an, Torah, and plenty of other religious texts call for killing of non-believers. Clergy make comments about atheists being less than human.  Churches hold protests saying "death to fags', "death to those who don't believe", etc. You have people like George Tiller being gunned down because his work clashes with the views of another sect of a religion.

Evolution itself has been proven.

The only thing that really annoys me about JMV is that he complains about religion (primarily Christianity) more than Christians do about gays and such that goes against our beliefs. He's afraid of having religion forced upon himself, when he's doing the same thing against the religious members here. Not once since I've been here have I seen anyone forcefully try to attempt JMV (or any of the atheists) into converting back to Christianity, so why should we be punished with the insults that we're delusional? If all the Christians of the world (which is what, one-sixth of the population?) are crazy, there would be a lot more chaos than there is or has been.
It's like, nobody here whole-heartedly does the things you complain about, so why do you view us as the scum who say things like what this topic was started for? I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I am not a radical like some of these people in the media, and it's just irritating to generalize us with those people. Like so what if we're both Christians? It's the largest religion in the entire world, of course we're going to have fools, just like we're going to have really good-natured, intelligent people.



Also then why is it still referred to as a theory? 

[Daddy]

The only thing that really annoys me about JMV is that he complains about religion (primarily Christianity) more than Christians do about gays and such that goes against our beliefs.

More than? I don't see any atheistic laws limiting the freedom of anyone.

He's afraid of having religion forced upon himself, when he's doing the same thing against the religious members here.

Where have I forced anyone (even without threats of eternal suffering that religion uses) to "not believe"?

Not once since I've been here have I seen anyone forcefully try to attempt JMV (or any of the atheists) into converting back to Christianity, so why should we be punished with the insults that we're delusional?

Because deluding yourself into believing something without any evidence is delusional.

If all the Christians of the world (which is what, one-sixth of the population?) are crazy, there would be a lot more chaos than there is or has been.

[citation needed]
I think there is already plenty of chaos and your argument doesn't work if you don't have a lack of chaos to compare it to. It's relative. If you see all the chaos, it appears to be normal.

It's like, nobody here whole-heartedly does the things you complain about, so why do you view us as the scum who say things like what this topic was started for?

It seems a few people here don't support the rights of people to marry someone that they love because their religion doesn't allow it.  It seems a few people here do accept something with no evidence proving it.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I am not a radical like some of these people in the media, and it's just irritating to generalize us with those people. Like so what if we're both Christians? It's the largest religion in the entire world, of course we're going to have fools, just like we're going to have really good-natured, intelligent people.

I've never said all religious people do that. I said they're delusional and if they're going to follow those that do it  they're just as guilty. Maybe not you personally but your religion which you're a part of.


If you're part of an organization which you then find out commits horrible crimes do you stay a part of the organization or do you leave that organization?

edit: pre-emptive counter argument about "and the members of the organization are not representative of the organization itself".  If leaders in the organization support such actions and are not called out, kicked out, and condemned the the organization is condoning such behavior.

Also then why is it still referred to as a theory? 

you're joking right

seriously how many fucking times has that been explained.  A scientific theory is not the same as "omg i have conspiracy theory"

[Bolivian Army]

uh the last post you made was:
I found there was not any content worth replying to.

by which i meant that i obviously didn't have a problem with you calling them religious, i had a problem with you calling them delusional you big goof

With this, you are right that it's one person saying it. However he is the leader in the churchââ,¬â€œThe same thing people kill for and die for to protect (see the crusades, inquisition, etc.) His claims provide justification for the people under him to commit the crime.

The holocaust was justified by The Nazis labeling Jews as subhuman. It's completely related to a cardinal doing what a Nazi did. Have any other church officials higher up than him came out to argue against what he said? Like I said, as long as they are supporting or otherwise not dismissing the comments and actions of their constituents they are just as guilty.

okay that's what i just said in my last post go on

The silly people get their silly ideas from their silly book

uh this one obviously didn't did you even read my last post buster 

jammy you seem to think that religious hypocrisy doesn't bother us theists because it's "religious" but really it probably bothers us just as much if not more

now c'mere you big lug lets hug it out

[rdl]

...What?

You abandoned us dick don't even try to deny it

[Det in F♯ Major]

More than? I don't see any atheistic laws limiting the freedom of anyone.

i meant you bitch about christianity more than christians bitch about gay marriage, etc

Where have I forced anyone (even without threats of eternal suffering that religion uses) to "not believe"?

Well he seems to have convinced other members of the irrational nature of religion

Because deluding yourself into believing something without any evidence is delusional.

We take the Bible as our evidence.
And yes I know you don't believe it.

[citation needed]
I think there is already plenty of chaos and your argument doesn't work if you don't have a lack of chaos to compare it to. It's relative. If you see all the chaos, it appears to be normal.

uh citation needed for what
also wat

It seems a few people here don't support the rights of people to marry someone that they love because their religion doesn't allow it.

when was the first gay marriage
how come it was okay before then to oppose it

If you're part of an organization which you then find out commits horrible crimes do you stay a part of the organization or do you leave that organization?

i have never heard any of my personal church leaders preach about committing horrible crimes
like i said, with a religion so large, you are bound to have some idiots in there
and that's stupid, if one of your teacher is caught having sex with a student at your school or your teacher forces you to stand up during the national anthem, are you going to switch schools just because of it?

[rdl]

Damn, JMV you're very bitter. About something.

I would hop in on this argument but I can't really because you're only discussing the Bible. Let me know when you guys start bashing the Quran (But only if you guys know about some of it)

[Det in F♯ Major]

Damn, JMV you're very bitter. About something.

I would hop in on this argument but I can't really because you're only discussing the Bible. Let me know when you guys start bashing the Quran (But only if you guys know about some of it)

Be our guests

[rdl]

No you first. I only play defensively when it comes to my holy books