After I came out of the closet, my friends (real, offline friends) are split. Some are happy for me, while others are indifferent. Their reason? God.
Tonight, my fellow Boyah members, I am seeking answers. I want somebody to give me PROOF (either by PM or posting here) that there is a God. Also, I want scriptures saying my lifestyle is a sin.
Back to my friends, they are always trying to change me. They want me back to being straight so "I can live in eternal peace."
HOLY SHIT.
If God loved his children, why would he send them to hell? Adam and Eve were related. They has sex. Incest is a sin. We are all dieing of sin, if that be the case.
Help needed. Thanks.
While I personally do not want to go into a flame war with one of my best friends over homosexuality, I will touch on the last subject. Adam and Eve.
To me, they were not married as we know them. They were not married in a church, a chapel, or any other place like that. They were just two people who made kids. The Bible says that God lets people go to hell because that is his plan. Some people can accept him as God and go to Heaven, and others will not and live forever in hell. I don't know why that is, I'm not God.
We can use the ever famous Christian parent quote "Have you ever tried not being gay?", but we know that's stupid. Homosexuality isn't a choice. You are who you are. If your friends stop liking you just because they found out you are gay, they aren't really your friends.
Quote from: Turtwig on April 16, 2007, 06:34:13 PM
While I personally do not want to go into a flame war with one of my best friends over homosexuality...
Trust me, it's not a flame war. I want scriptual references. I also want YOUR view.
If you wish not to talk about it here, why not PM me?
Quote from: ClassicTyler on April 16, 2007, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Turtwig on April 16, 2007, 06:34:13 PM
While I personally do not want to go into a flame war with one of my best friends over homosexuality...
Trust me, it's not a flame war. I want scriptual references. I also want YOUR view.
If you wish not to talk about it here, why not PM me?
I'm not a theologist, I'm not a professional to talk about homosexuality and if it's right or wrong. I take Bible class, and I go to church. I pray to God, and that's it. I'm not a preacher, a Sunday school teacher, or any position of Biblical authority. My view is that people can choose whether to be gay or not. I have no problem with them, they have the option to be homosexual. I can't recall when I flamed you over your opinion, can I?
Quote from: Turtwig on April 16, 2007, 06:39:34 PM
Quote from: ClassicTyler on April 16, 2007, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Turtwig on April 16, 2007, 06:34:13 PM
While I personally do not want to go into a flame war with one of my best friends over homosexuality...
Trust me, it's not a flame war. I want scriptual references. I also want YOUR view.
If you wish not to talk about it here, why not PM me?
I'm not a theologist, I'm not a professional to talk about homosexuality and if it's right or wrong. I take Bible class, and I go to church. I pray to God, and that's it. I'm not a preacher, a Sunday school teacher, or any position of Biblical authority. My view is that people can choose whether to be gay or not. I have no problem with them, they have the option to be homosexual. I can't recall when I flamed you over your opinion, can I?
You never have. You just wanted to prevent it. flower;
I think that's fucking stupid. Personally, I don't give a shit what the bible says. I have different views then that damn book.
If you're gay, you're gay. There's no changing that. No one can change that.
If you're friends don't accept you, for whatever reason, forget them.
Don't forget. BOYAH LOVES YOU. wub;
I've been researching a little for a YouTube video I'm planning on making that will put all the facts that there isn't or is a god out on the table. Hopefully I'll get some people to think and I'm sure many online people over at YouTube will get a little mad at me but so what
flower;
All the proof we have of a God is a bokk written by people who never met Jesus. The gospel wrighters weren't even there. No where is it stated the homosexuality is a sin. We just gathered that from the sixth commandment I think.
Quote from: Tri4se on April 16, 2007, 08:51:28 PM
All the proof we have of a God is a bokk written by people who never met Jesus. The gospel wrighters weren't even there. No where is it stated the homosexuality is a sin. We just gathered that from the sixth commandment I think.
*forgot what the sixth commandment is*
Well, I don't think there's a problem with being gay. You are who you are.
Remember Tyler, we'll always accept you here at BOYAH.
Quote from: Thief888 on April 16, 2007, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: Tri4se on April 16, 2007, 08:51:28 PM
All the proof we have of a God is a bokk written by people who never met Jesus. The gospel wrighters weren't even there. No where is it stated the homosexuality is a sin. We just gathered that from the sixth commandment I think.
*forgot what the sixth commandment is*
Well, I don't think there's a problem with being gay. You are who you are.
Remember Tyler, we'll always accept you here at BOYAH.
So did I. china; But catholisism magically pulls out millions of sins from just 10 rules. Masturbation is a sin and It's not one of the commandments. They got It from "YOU WILL NOT COMMIT ADULTRY" I think. psyduck;
Once I'm ungrounded and can use my computer at home, I'll post here (either in this thread, or another if it's gone when BOYAH is fixed) about all the things I can dig up about homosexuality in the Bible.
But I honestly just don't know it well enough to be able to tell you now. And I want to be able to be online more often to discuss it will y'all.
You see, I am Catholic. But lately, I've been questioning my beliefs. Deep down, I'm not sure if there is a God, but my mom and everybody else has pressured me that I'll go to hell for questioning if God exists. I don't know.
Quote from: Turtwig on April 16, 2007, 06:34:13 PM
While I personally do not want to go into a flame war with one of my best friends over homosexuality, I will touch on the last subject. Adam and Eve.
To me, they were not married as we know them. They were not married in a church, a chapel, or any other place like that. They were just two people who made kids. The Bible says that God lets people go to hell because that is his plan. Some people can accept him as God and go to Heaven, and others will not and live forever in hell. I don't know why that is, I'm not God.
Doesn't change the fact such a thing would be considered incest. Incest would be a sin, regardless of if they are married. Also, isn't sex out of marriage considered a sin?
If she plans for some to go to hell, there would be no repent.
Quote from: Pennywise on April 17, 2007, 11:11:34 PM
Ah! My session expired when I was typing. I'll type it up tommorrow.
Six whole paragraphs wasted.
Just set your time to never log out. jsr;
It's faith. There's no hard proof that God exists, it's just that some people choose to believe he does.
I'm Christian, and I personally believe that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual. Some Christians say "The Bible says you go to Hell if you're homosexual." I say, "Homosexuality isn't a choice, so why would God make people homosexual if he was just going to send them to Hell?" Thus, we can come to the conclusion that homosexuality isn't wrong.
People seem to forget, the Bible wasn't written by God, it was written by people who claimed God was telling them what to write. The Bible most certainly can be influenced by the opinions of the people who wrote it and the society at the time of the people who wrote it. Just because you disagree with things in the Bible doesn't make you less Christian.
Quote from: Pennywise on April 18, 2007, 09:15:50 PM
The Bible was divinely inspired.
If not explain how the Bible is able to prophecy events that occur hundreds of years into the future without fail.
The events aren't specific enough. They could be talking about anything.
Find a specific example.
Quote from: Pennywise on April 18, 2007, 09:15:50 PM
The Bible was divinely inspired.
If not explain how the Bible is able to prophecy events that occur hundreds of years into the future without fail.
I never said it wasn't, I said that it's possible that it was influenced by people, perhaps not when it was written, but later on. china;
Quote from: ClassicTyler on April 16, 2007, 06:31:31 PM
After I came out of the closet, my friends (real, offline friends) are split. Some are happy for me, while others are indifferent. Their reason? God.
Tonight, my fellow Boyah members, I am seeking answers. I want somebody to give me PROOF (either by PM or posting here) that there is a God. Also, I want scriptures saying my lifestyle is a sin.
Back to my friends, they are always trying to change me. They want me back to being straight so "I can live in eternal peace."
HOLY SHIT.
If God loved his children, why would he send them to hell? Adam and Eve were related. They has sex. Incest is a sin. We are all dieing of sin, if that be the case.
Help needed. Thanks.
There is no god Tyler...Let's face that fact.
And any friends of yours who are weak enough to rely on "god" for help are fucking wastes of time.
Our own government classifies religion as a mental illness.
Think about that.
You're fine how you are man. flower;
Quote from: ClassicTyler on April 16, 2007, 06:42:05 PM
Quote from: Turtwig on April 16, 2007, 06:39:34 PM
Quote from: ClassicTyler on April 16, 2007, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Turtwig on April 16, 2007, 06:34:13 PM
While I personally do not want to go into a flame war with one of my best friends over homosexuality...
Trust me, it's not a flame war. I want scriptual references. I also want YOUR view.
If you wish not to talk about it here, why not PM me?
I'm not a theologist, I'm not a professional to talk about homosexuality and if it's right or wrong. I take Bible class, and I go to church. I pray to God, and that's it. I'm not a preacher, a Sunday school teacher, or any position of Biblical authority. My view is that people can choose whether to be gay or not. I have no problem with them, they have the option to be homosexual. I can't recall when I flamed you over your opinion, can I?
You never have. You just wanted to prevent it. flower;
Quick Q, why are you changing his name to "Turtwig" in the quotes? psyduck;
Quote from: Necro Gaara on April 23, 2007, 09:15:49 PM
Quote from: ClassicTyler on April 16, 2007, 06:42:05 PM
Quote from: Turtwig on April 16, 2007, 06:39:34 PM
Quote from: ClassicTyler on April 16, 2007, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Turtwig on April 16, 2007, 06:34:13 PM
While I personally do not want to go into a flame war with one of my best friends over homosexuality...
Trust me, it's not a flame war. I want scriptual references. I also want YOUR view.
If you wish not to talk about it here, why not PM me?
I'm not a theologist, I'm not a professional to talk about homosexuality and if it's right or wrong. I take Bible class, and I go to church. I pray to God, and that's it. I'm not a preacher, a Sunday school teacher, or any position of Biblical authority. My view is that people can choose whether to be gay or not. I have no problem with them, they have the option to be homosexual. I can't recall when I flamed you over your opinion, can I?
You never have. You just wanted to prevent it. flower;
Quick Q, why are you changing his name to "Turtwig" in the quotes? psyduck;
It was Turtwig when this conversation started. hur;
For whoever said that the Bible says nothing about homosexuality, you are wrong.
If a man also lie with man, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Leviticus 20:13
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:26-27
There are a few other ones, but those are the most straightforward ones.
Now, these verses basically say that homosexuals should be put to death. But the thing is, that's old testament law. That's part of the first covenant. Homosexuality is a sin, but Jesus came and abolished the first covenant, and brought the new covenant. We are no longer under the law, but under Jesus. We don't follow the law, for that will lead to destruction. Instead, we follow Jesus, and do his will, and in doing so, following the law will come naturally. Meaning that whenever you get right with Jesus, then with hard prayer and faith, you can lose your homosexual feelings to become closer to God.
Now, from my interpretation of the Bible, homosexuality under the first covenant is a sin and with sin, you should be put to death. Put under the second covenant, it's humanity that is a sin. Sin goes from being an action, to a force of Satan that drives us to do his will and keep us from God. With Gods help, we can conquer the force of sin and become holy and righteous Christians. I say, it is HARD. But when you do start to conquer sin, you will become closer and closer to God. I also believe that if you would totally conquer the force of sin, you would be 100% close to God. But the thing is, we have human nature that stops us. We can come close to it, but never in our lifetimes will we truely conquer it. Because of that, we will always have some separation from God. But with Gods help, you can get that separation smaller and smaller.
I have no clue who you are, but I would like to pray for you. If there is anything you need, tell me. I'd be happy to listen to you. I don't know what your life story is, but if you would like to give me a bit of insight on it, I'd be happy to listen.
I'd just like to add this: no decision in one's life is a choice of "God." You're a homosexual? It's a result of how society raised you. Someone dropped an addiction to a drug or alcohol? They did it to preserve their health and live a longer, better life; not because "God" helped them.
It bothers me when every good decision a person makes in their life, and every bit of their personality, is a result of god "helping them out." It's worse when those people can turn around, lose a child, and say "whelp, it was God's decision," and some how smile about it.
Look, if you don't believe that there is a god, why do you give a shit? Because you're friends are against it? If they were truely your friends, they would accept you for who you are.
I am a Christian, but I find nothing wrong with homosexuality. I don't support it, but I don't condemn those who practice it.
Here's my veiw: There is a God, but NOT the Christian God. Why?
Simple. If this God is "all Powerful" and has EVERYTHING planned as christians say he does, then the bible lied saying that you have free will.
I am just going to assume that you are not Christian, Lawlz, so alot of this probably doesn't make since to you. I've actually never met a person who actually understands all aspects of Christianity who is not a Christian. In fact, it's not uncommon for me to meet a committed Christian who doesn't understand most of the basics.
I explained in my previous post that sin is not an action, but rather a force of Satan. You can also say that sin is human nature.Whenever we are under the force of sin, then we are far from God, and in order for us to get closer to God, we need help getting away from the force of sin. If we try to do this by ourselves, simply put, we'll phail. A person can stop using drugs for health reasons with rehab, or maybe even by himself if the will power is strong enough. But the thing is, he's still sinning by not trusting God to help him through it, and will still be far from God, so he didn't stop the force of sin in that aspect of his life. But if he would've done it through prayer and faith that God will show him the way through this, then he will end up getting closer to God by letting God get rid of the aspect of sin in his life.
And as far as a person having something horrific happen to him, then claiming it to be Gods will and smiling about it, really has found that it was in fact Gods will, and eventually has no choice but to smile and praise God about it, because in the big picture, God can use something as tragic as that for his big plan. Maybe if a person loses a child, it's to test his heart, so that he will be able to help other people to get through something as terrible as that.
From the outside, Christianity normally looks like a bunch of anti-fun people blindly following a book written by lunatics, but whenever you learn more about it, or become a Christian, you realize that there is so much more to it then that.
Glory, I don't support homosexuality within Christianity, because it's morally wrong for a Christian. However, if a brother is struggling with a sin, then I will help him through as best as God will let me.
Lance, you have to understand God to realize the answer to that. And it's impossible for a human to understand God. But I will try to explain it to you as best as I know how. God has a plan for everybody, but he also gave free will to people, so that they can choose to follow the plan or not to.
As an addition to Ownage Baby's wonderfully-written post, we, as humans, also do not understand what "true love" is. God understands it perfectly. That's why He sent the Israelites into the desert for fourty years, that's why He made Job go through such a horrible life, and that's why He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross. Now, this may sound like a Christian's "get out of jail free" way of saying "I don't know the answer to your question", but it's true. We are too sinful to even begin to understand true love. It's like how, when Moses asked if he could see God's face, God said that Moses would surely die if he were to see God's glory.
And, as for the "why does He send people to hell?" question, it's all about free will. Hell, in a nutshell, is a place where God does not exist. It's where there's only chaos and eternal death (or however you would want to put it). God gave us a choice, and a gift, for that. We could either accept his gift, or deny it.
Yes, God is All Powerful. But He is also All Loving.
Homosexuality is not a sin at all, man. You know, Gay people are no more sinners than you, me, or God himself. You know I've met some beautiful people who were gay and I have to say they're really easy going and fun to talk to. Just because I'm not gay don't mean that I don't approve of them. What you do with the people you love is your business and not even God himself can tell you otherwise. If there's one thing I love in a human being is when they are themselves and who they want to be and no one, not even a book can tell you, you can't do something...Peace and Love.
A small addition to Sebastians post, the reason that God tests us like that is to prepare us to do his will, so that we can show other people his great love.
Solar and Lunar, refer to the first post I made in the previous page.
Quote from: Ownage Baby on April 29, 2007, 11:31:18 AM
A small addition to Sebastians post, the reason that God tests us like that is to prepare us to do his will, so that we can show other people his great love.
Yes, screwing up someone's life is the best way to display love, and helping others suffer is even better.
thumbup; ?
Because having people go through trials is what makes them stronger.
What would you be like right now if nothing bad ever happened to you?
Quote from: Ownage Baby on April 29, 2007, 12:48:32 PM
Because having people go through trials is what makes them stronger.
What would you be like right now if nothing bad ever happened to you?
We'd be a perfect society if life worked like that.
Problem is, problems are part of life.
God didn't want us to be just a perfect little society in a perfect little world, because there would be no point in that, at all. That'd be like him not giving us free will! We'd be just little goats following him blindly, simply because there'd be no problems to distract us from him.
Instead, God gave us free will, so that we could choose to follow Gods plan, or go against it.
Quote from: Ownage Baby on April 29, 2007, 01:04:24 PM
Problem is, problems are part of life.
God didn't want us to be just a perfect little society in a perfect little world, because there would be no point in that, at all. That'd be like him not giving us free will! We'd be just little goats following him blindly, simply because there'd be no problems to distract us from him.
Instead, God gave us free will, so that we could choose to follow Gods plan, or go against it.
God is like when a beautiful baby honey asks you if those jeans make you look fat...Answer right and is all windy walks and sexy time but answer wrong and it's an eternity in hell for you...
I've never heard an anology about God like that. Nor does it make sense to me. Please explain.
Quote from: Ownage Baby on April 29, 2007, 01:34:36 PM
I've never heard an anology about God like that. Nor does it make sense to me. Please explain.
To explain would take the piss out pf it...Plus, if you don't get it then you shouldn't get a girlfriend...
I understand the part about telling her she doesn't look fat, but I don't get how it relates to God...
Quote from: Ownage Baby on April 29, 2007, 01:59:40 PM
I understand the part about telling her she doesn't look fat, but I don't get how it relates to God...
You don't do what God wants you to and then YOU'RE DONE!
Hmm. I don't really have much to say that'll make me look smart and you retarded right now, so I'll say that I semi-agree with your analogy now.
Quote from: Ownage Baby on April 29, 2007, 02:04:31 PM
Hmm. I don't really have much to say that'll make me look smart and you retarded right now, so I'll say that I semi-agree with your analogy now.
Haha...Indulge me dear Messiah, what could POSSIBLY make you sound smart at this point?
As I can prove to you that god exists, I can't really prove to you that he didn't approve of gay marriage. The bible we use today was translated and editted twice, I believe, so some oinions could have been added in there.
Everytime that a new version of the Bible is written, they have translators go back to the original language it was written in, to avoid mis-translations. The original scriptures said that homosexual sex is wrong, so that must mean that homosexual marriage to is wrong.
Quote from: Ownage Baby on April 29, 2007, 07:28:15 PM
Everytime that a new version of the Bible is written, they have translators go back to the original language it was written in, to avoid mis-translations. The original scriptures said that homosexual sex is wrong, so that must mean that homosexual marriage to is wrong.
Oh, but now that you say it like THAT it must be true!
Quote from: ClassicTyler on April 16, 2007, 06:31:31 PM
After I came out of the closet, my friends (real, offline friends) are split. Some are happy for me, while others are indifferent. Their reason? God.
Tonight, my fellow Boyah members, I am seeking answers. I want somebody to give me PROOF (either by PM or posting here) that there is a God. Also, I want scriptures saying my lifestyle is a sin.
Back to my friends, they are always trying to change me. They want me back to being straight so "I can live in eternal peace."
HOLY LAWLZON.
If God loved his children, why would he send them to hell? Adam and Eve were related. They has sex. Incest is a sin. We are all dieing of sin, if that be the case.
Help needed. Thanks.
Wait, you're gay?
And Jesus never actually said anything about gayness being bad. It's just those damn politicians spreading propaganda, warping an honest religion.
Quote from: metal eyeball on April 30, 2007, 02:47:49 PM
Quote from: ClassicTyler on April 16, 2007, 06:31:31 PM
After I came out of the closet, my friends (real, offline friends) are split. Some are happy for me, while others are indifferent. Their reason? God.
Tonight, my fellow Boyah members, I am seeking answers. I want somebody to give me PROOF (either by PM or posting here) that there is a God. Also, I want scriptures saying my lifestyle is a sin.
Back to my friends, they are always trying to change me. They want me back to being straight so "I can live in eternal peace."
HOLY LAWLZON.
If God loved his children, why would he send them to hell? Adam and Eve were related. They has sex. Incest is a sin. We are all dieing of sin, if that be the case.
Help needed. Thanks.
Wait, you're gay?
And Jesus never actually said anything about gayness being bad. It's just those damn politicians spreading propaganda, warping an honest religion.
According to Mr.Own God did in fact say something about gays but they're not really sure...Maybe he said that they were fabulous!
Metal Eyeball, refer to first post on page two, and then rethink your post.
Just look around. I mean if there isn't a higher power...what is there? Isn't it comforting to know what will happen when we die?
And as far as being gay, I do not believe that God will send all gay people to hell. Actually, I am Mormon, so we believe in three Kingdoms of heaven. Terrestrial, Telestial, and Celestial. Hell is basically outer darkness...but only horrible, I mean jsut terrible people go there. It's not like because you're gay you will burn in hell. Now the three Kingdoms of heaven, celestial is for righteous people, who lived good, moral lives. Telestial is sort of for people like us, just average Joe's, I mean we sin but we don't go on killing sprees and live completely immorally. Terrestrial, you would still kill yourself to go there but it is for people who just...well, I am not an expert.
However, we also believe each person is judged individually. Obviously some people were raised to do bad things. If you were brought up as...just a random example, a buddhist, you would be judged on you lived your life as a buddhist. But in heaven you would be taught more.
It might seem weird from an outsider's view if you know nothing about Mormonism, but most of our views are really twisted by people who don't know about us. I have had a person who didn't really believe in God tell me he believed in Mormonism. I went to a catholic school, I just didn't agree with all that.
But I repeat, I am not an expert on my own religion, so don't take everything I say as like solid answers.
Quote from: *Boo* on May 01, 2007, 07:34:41 PM
I mean if there isn't a higher power...what is there?
Just life. Nothing more, but possibly less.