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Quote from: miyamoto, allegedlyDonkey Kong Country proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good.

this apocryphal miyamoto quote has been floating around for at least 20 years, and i only recently discovered a maybe-credible source of its validity (https://books.google.com/books?id=Y7KfAAAAMAAJ&dq=isbn%3A0761536434&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=mediocre)

one year after the launch of dkc, miyamoto submitted a prototype of yoshi's island to nintendo's management, who rejected it for being too simplistic in the wake of the critically acclaimed pseudo-3d sprites and backgrounds pioneered by donkey kong

this cemented his resentment for dkc and prerendered assets in general, hence the near complete lack of prerendered scenes in nintendo games to this day

in response, miyamoto took his yoshi's island prototype and spitefully made it even more cartoonish, resulting in its now famous pastel crayon aesthetic, and this version was approved

20+ years later, who do you think ultimately took the superior artistic approach? Does Miyamoto's characterization of DKC's gameplay as "mediocre" have any merit? For those who've played both any game in the original DKC trilogy and Yoshi's Island, which do you prefer overall?

i'm actually not sure i can provide a valuable answer for the art style question - i've only ever played the gba ports of yoshi's island and the dkc games, both of which have significant graphical compromises (esp. dkc) lol

but i will say that i do prefer yoshi's island's gameplay to dkc's in general

Tbh I don't find either game very pretty. Both are too "artsy" looking imo. I think SMW is prettier

Donkey Kong Country's character models look a bit...off.

While I love the DKC look in general, I do think Yoshi's Island has a more interesting art style.

yoshi's island is one of the greatest games of all time. its no question

Neither rock my socks I guess if I had to pick one I'd go with Yoshis island?  But I'd way rather play dkc

DKC did look very impressive, but the original Yoshi's Island had an excellent style. Also while Baby Mario was a really frustrating mechanic, I'd say DKC is a bit clunkier of a game. I've also heard that Miyamoto retracted his statement not long after.

Art aside (I still prefer DKC just a bit) DKC I feel is a better made game. The levels just have a much better flow to me, it's more fun to play when you can find that "flow"

i hate yoshi's island's aesthetic with a fiery passion (like half the reason i dont really care for that game) so dunky it is

I like the art style in Yoshi's Island, but I also didn't mind trading it for a completely different art style in Woolly World. The change in visual style is the biggest reason that I think Yoshi's Story feels really jarring.

One gripe I have with games like DKC thanks to the art style is that in certain situations the platform/collision boundaries aren't clear. Otherwise, purely from aesthetic perspective, I feel like this comparison is similar to Wind Waker and Twilight Princess; I like the stylized and expressive option better, it ages better, but at the time the game released most fans will criticize the cartoonish one for being too "childish" and praise the realistic one for graphics.

It's a real shame that Yoshi's Island has only been getting re-releases only in the form of the GBA remake rather than in a format that actually the preserves original visuals and sounds. I'd even call it the classic game that's most in need of a "definitive remaster" that combines the best aspects of both versions while ditching the dependency on SuperFX.

Quote from: Tectron on February 26, 2017, 07:11:19 PM
this cemented his resentment for dkc and prerendered assets in general, hence the near complete lack of prerendered scenes in nintendo games to this day

NSMB (DS) is almost completely prerendered assets which seemed kinda weird. With this context I get the impression that Miyamoto might have hated that particular decision. Plenty of the other games Miyamoto worked with use prerendered textures for skyboxes and distant background elements, but not so much with foreground objects, and even then it's sometimes surprising how many background objects are actually 3D.

When it comes to prerendered cutscenes, I honestly can't think of any among first-party Nintendo games. Are there any? Second-party games like Kirby and Brawl and Fire Emblem have them. In an age of downloadable media I appreciate that the lack of prerendered cutscenes drastically reduces download sizes.

Quote from: bluaki on February 27, 2017, 07:39:34 AM
It's a real shame that Yoshi's Island has only been getting re-releases only in the form of the GBA remake rather than in a format that actually the preserves original visuals and sounds. I'd even call it the classic game that's most in need of a "definitive remaster" that combines the best aspects of both versions while ditching the dependency on SuperFX.

You know I'd never thought of this, but a Yoshi's Island HD would be incredible. In fact, I'd like to see Nintendo make any kind of 2D platformer with hand-drawn graphics or HD sprites. The only thing close to that I can think of is WarioLand Shake It!

Quote from: bluaki on February 27, 2017, 07:39:34 AM
One gripe I have with games like DKC thanks to the art style is that in certain situations the platform/collision boundaries aren't clear.

this is easily my biggest and probably only significant issue with the dkc games

i've lost countless lives and wasted many precious minutes repeating stunts as a result of being unable to properly ascertain where a platform begins/ends

most nintendo platformers will give you a gratuity pixel or two off the edge of any platform, but sometimes in dkc it feels as if collision boundaries can end a few pixels before their visual representations indicate myface;

also, i feel like tp got a lot of criticism for being hideous from the minute it released

i mean, it only gets worse with age (ugh, and that """hd""" port), but i never found it to be an attractive game to begin with lol

Quote from: bluaki on February 27, 2017, 07:39:34 AM
It's a real shame that Yoshi's Island has only been getting re-releases only in the form of the GBA remake rather than in a format that actually the preserves original visuals and sounds. I'd even call it the classic game that's most in need of a "definitive remaster" that combines the best aspects of both versions while ditching the dependency on SuperFX.

i was as disappointed as i was completely unsurprised to discover that the wii u port of yoshi's island is a straight port of the inferior gba version

nintendo is simply too lazy to even consider emulating the super fx chip, which is why we'll likely never get a proper port of the original star fox either awdood;

Quote from: bluaki on February 27, 2017, 07:39:34 AM
NSMB (DS) is almost completely prerendered assets which seemed kinda weird. With this context I get the impression that Miyamoto might have hated that particular decision. Plenty of the other games Miyamoto worked with use prerendered textures for skyboxes and distant background elements, but not so much with foreground objects, and even then it's sometimes surprising how many background objects are actually 3D.

When it comes to prerendered cutscenes, I honestly can't think of any among first-party Nintendo games. Are there any? Second-party games like Kirby and Brawl and Fire Emblem have them. In an age of downloadable media I appreciate that the lack of prerendered cutscenes drastically reduces download sizes.

miyamoto apparently had very little to do with the development of the original nsmb, which probably explains its heavy use of prerendered assets

and i can't think of any examples of first-party nintendo games that use prerendered cutscenes either, though i wouldn't be surprised if there are a few obscure ones

Quote from: Tectron on February 28, 2017, 01:32:30 AM
i was as disappointed as i was completely unsurprised to discover that the wii u port of yoshi's island is a straight port of the inferior gba version

nintendo is simply too lazy to even consider emulating the super fx chip, which is why we'll likely never get a proper port of the original star fox either awdood;

I won't normally defend Nintendo's often insane approaches to managing VC, but this is one thing that they actually can't help: I think they're not legally allowed to sell an emulator for the SuperFX chip.

They can port it to not require SuperFX, but they chose the easier/cheaper option of rereleasing the existing GBA port instead.

you know what tho, real talk

both games had good-ass music

Quote from: Thyme on March 04, 2017, 06:20:10 PM
you know what tho, real talk

both games had good-ass music

True, but DKC2's kicks the shit out of either YI's or DKC1's

Real talk; dkc 3 has the best music ever...

Quote from: Thyme on March 04, 2017, 06:20:10 PM
you know what tho, real talk

both games had good-ass music

agreed, but also agreed w/ kaz

dkc2>dkc1>yoshi's island soundtrack-wise

Quote from: Big Goop on March 04, 2017, 06:49:41 PM
Real talk; dkc 3 has the best music ever...

the gba version of dkc3 has an entirely unique soundtrack composed by david wise

you should give it a listen and see if it's any better than the snes version's

Quote from: Tectron on March 04, 2017, 07:46:30 PM

Quote from: Big Goop on March 04, 2017, 06:49:41 PM
Real talk; dkc 3 has the best music ever...

the gba version of dkc3 has an entirely unique soundtrack composed by david wise

you should give it a listen and see if it's any better than the snes version's

i actually wanted to. I wanna pick up the gba version sometime

Quote from: ƕɾο on February 27, 2017, 01:11:42 AM
I've also heard that Miyamoto retracted his statement not long after.

he did recant eventually, but it wasn't until 15 YEARS later rofl

http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/06/17/e3-2010-shigeru-miyamoto-likes-donkey-kong-country-after-all?page=3

and probably only because he didn't like being seen as a petty egoist

[spoiler]

too bad some of his more recent behavior reconfirms that he can indeed be a petty egoist[/spoiler]